kent Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't thank you for a 17HMR, Ive owned one and although at times very accurate there is just far too much of a problem with the ammo. Split necks and squibs that leave a bullet up the barrel are too much like hard work. If you Google problems with HMR there are pages upon pages of evidence to support this. The 17HMR sounds like the perfect caliber for what you want but the reality is at times very different. Now something like a 17 Hornet might be a different matter altogether, it will give you all the fox killing power you need and will make 150yd rabbits a very realistic option, factory ammo or the option to reload if you need. Received news the other week that the Dutchy of Lancaster has recalled all their keepers HMRs on health and safety grounds, one keeper had his blow up with a faulty round. H&S guy looked into it and said there was ample evidence to recall all those guns from the workforce, they have issued .22 wmr and the guys are rumoured to be unhappy. This is second hand info from neighbouring keepers at present I have not spoken directly to any directly concerned yet btw Just thought it worth saying Its actually easier to shoot .22 LR subs well at 80-100 yards than it is WMR, trajectory is only half the tale! Chances of a newcomer to rifles doing either well within the short term is quite limited so get a .22 lr and practice. The std .22 Hornet will do all this and more with factory ammo as will the 17 hornet (I just don't rate the 17 as a better thing). at an increased cost ammo wise All bullets will ricochet, a lower likelihood counts for so very little ( in the case of the HMR my experience shows it six of one and half a dozen of the other). So much BS spoke about the .22 mag what it does is hit harder than the other rim fires, it still wont create a clean kill on a fox if it lands in the wrong spot though, as always its first shot on target that counts. I should rather carry a shotgun for fox than I might any of the rim fires if that choice was available and a centre fire rifle over a shotgun likewise Edited June 8, 2015 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Have I got this right? You are suggesting that the OP practices with a 22 LR so he can use it to shoot foxes at 100 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Can be confusing. Originally the RWS was in excess of 350 ft lbs - I can't remember the exact velocity but it was in excess of 2000 ft/sec. Now they're 1954 (595 m/s) V0 which equates to 339. PS Hang on found it: 2020/362. Thanks wymberley . I cant access the rws sites as my phone wont let me look on there . Its a new contract and ive still got the child locks on haha . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Thanks wymberley . I cant access the rws sites as my phone wont let me look on there . Its a new contract and ive still got the child locks on haha . When they were 2020, the Federal 50 was 1650. The latter hung on to its energy better and overtook that of the RWS at 120 yards. Now the Federal has also been reduced - down to 1530 - the change over is 145 yards. As this is beyond fox capable range for either, the RWS is the better bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 My rfd has a fare amount of old stock wmr some from 10 yrs ago . I have been having a good ol rummage through it all . I grabbed the rws as soon as i see it and around 900 of the cci gold dot HP 50 grain . Which i belive they discontinued a few yrs back . There a slowish round due to weight but by christ they dont half do the job down range . And the expansion is fantastic . They dont mushroom or break up . They open out like a star fish haha thats the best i can think of to discribe it . They also have a slight boat tail too . The heads are made buy spear . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) I remember the rws rounds years ago now, they were mustard and a good all round bullet. I remember the federal 50 gen too but thought they trundled along at 1350 ish ! Edited June 8, 2015 by Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I think the cci 50 grn i have are around the 1550-1575 but will have to confirm that over the chrono. The bunny i shot last night was nearly cut in two . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 My rfd has a fare amount of old stock wmr some from 10 yrs ago . I have been having a good ol rummage through it all . I grabbed the rws as soon as i see it and around 900 of the cci gold dot HP 50 grain . Which i belive they discontinued a few yrs back . There a slowish round due to weight but by christ they dont half do the job down range . And the expansion is fantastic . They dont mushroom or break up . They open out like a star fish haha thats the best i can think of to discribe it . They also have a slight boat tail too . The heads are made buy spear . If you have any of the old RWS, be careful. I started using them in my Ruger and got some blow-backs that really stung - fortunately I wear glasses. They'd split at the rim. Took them back for investigation and when the replacement ones arrived they were 1954. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Am getting use to these driller rounds I have. It does kill charlies but I can also take bunny home too. One reason I don't need an Lr any more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 If you have any of the old RWS, be careful. I started using them in my Ruger and got some blow-backs that really stung - fortunately I wear glasses. They'd split at the rim. Took them back for investigation and when the replacement ones arrived they were 1954.Ill keep an eye out . Cheers for the heads up though .so far all is good . Am getting use to these driller rounds I have. It does kill charlies but I can also take bunny home too. One reason I don't need an Lr any more! what are you using U ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) CCI 30+v. Also still have the Remington. 40 HP&sp Edited June 8, 2015 by Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Can be confusing. Originally the RWS was in excess of 350 ft lbs - I can't remember the exact velocity but it was in excess of 2000 ft/sec. Now they're 1954 (595 m/s) V0 which equates to 339. PS Hang on found it: 2020/362. I think most of the modern/latest stock are down a bit on 350 these days.... ...never got on that well with the 50g historically and pretty limited availability today. 40g CCI Maxi Mag V were great in my last WMR, but my latest WMR works a treat with Hornady 30g V Max at 322ft lb, these tail off, energy wise, pretty quick after 100, but also fly pretty close to 17g HMR V-Max out to 100. I tend not to push the distance on any calibre/ammo but those 30g Hornady V-Max have proved effective and reliable for me! Edited June 8, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I shot a lot of fox with the WMR looking after the free range laying hens and tried quite a few different rounds. Yep, you can drop a fox with a 22 LR sub at 50 yards if the aim is good - 80ish ft/lbs. I eventually came to the conclusion that for me and to cater for any imperfect shot placement, the maximum effective range for any 22 WMR round at a distance where you were never going to be too far off the mark anyway was that where the energy was not less than 160 ft/lbs. It seemed to work out OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Have I got this right? You are suggesting that the OP practices with a 22 LR so he can use it to shoot foxes at 100 yards. Never made any bones about the fact that I personally think all the rim fires are not suitable choice as fox rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Its actually easier to shoot .22 LR subs well at 80-100 yards than it is WMR, trajectory is only half the tale! Chances of a newcomer to rifles doing either well within the short term is quite limited so get a .22 lr and practice. So much BS spoke about the .22 mag what it does is hit harder than the other rim fires, it still wont create a clean kill on a fox if it lands in the wrong spot though, as always its first shot on target that counts. I should rather carry a shotgun for fox than I might any of the rim fires if that choice was available and a centre fire rifle over a shotgun likewise am intrigued what makes the .22lr easier to shoot at 80-100yds than a WMR? if its not trajectory as you say You said they were keepers, so assuming not new to rifles of any sort There are no magic bullets, hit a fox with a 308 in the wrong place and it will die a slow death.....more foxes peppered with No.6 shot licking wounds than there are wounded with a rimfire I would wager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Never made any bones about the fact that I personally think all the rim fires are not suitable choice as fox rifles. What would you suggest I use in domestic back gardens shooting fox between about 7-25 yards then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 What would you suggest I use in domestic back gardens shooting fox between about 7-25 yards then? I think the OP was talking some 80 to 100 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) I think the OP was talking some 80 to 100 yards. Indeed he was, but Kent made a general comment "Never made any bones about the fact that I personally think all the rim fires are not suitable choice as fox rifles". He didn't qualify that with a distance, it was a blanket statement. So it was directed at him for an answer. Edited June 13, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennym Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Kent is misunderstood..... It's a form of bullying you know. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennym Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 To try to smooth things over I'm sure Kent would/should agree for the specific purpose Deters mentioned the. 22 is the tool for the job, but to head off fox shooting there are better tools available (not to say. 22 isn't acceptable) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I am quite happy to shoot a fox with 14 grm loads of number 7 in my .410 shotgun under certain specific circumstances its totally ideal, does this make the .410 shotgun a fox gun? Nope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Never made any bones about the fact that I personally think all the rim fires are not suitable choice as fox rifles. What would you suggest I use in domestic back gardens shooting fox between about 7-25 yards then? I am quite happy to shoot a fox with 14 grm loads of number 7 in my .410 shotgun under certain specific circumstances its totally ideal, does this make the .410 shotgun a fox gun? Nope! So what would you call a rimfire I used in the circumstances outlined above if not a Fox Rifle, as it is entirely appropriate and the best tool/s for that job. How about..... It's not a Fox Rifle, it's just the best possible thing to use for foxes in those circumstances! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Common trait today. The tendency to switch to the negative comment. Any way the fox's around here succumb to all rim fire bullets .22 size. Maybe they are different fox's elsewhere but here our little red fox cops it just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennym Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Why isn't there a LIKE icon on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Why isn't there a LIKE icon on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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