Paul223 Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Sorry Deckers your obviously correct, the Home Office is obviously responsible for classifying which animals are pests and which animals are protected, I've got it all wrong.......best of luck in applying to the HO for a license to control, let's say, ravens, I'm sure the HO will be lots of help. And again you shoot more foxes in back gardens as part of your job than most, so yes you know how effective a .22 can be, however most folk will be shooting fox at a much greater distance so I'm sure your doing your level best for shooting sports recommending rimfire calibers for foxing. Me I'll stick to recommending a tool that can do the job with a higher chance of consistent clean kills rather than a 'well it should do the job cos I can do it at 20 yards out the bedroom window'......so I'll stick to my approach of centrefire for foxes thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Sorry Deckers your obviously correct, the Home Office is obviously responsible for classifying which animals are pests and which animals are protected, I've got it all wrong.......best of luck in applying to the HO for a license to control, let's say, ravens, I'm sure the HO will be lots of help. And again you shoot more foxes in back gardens as part of your job than most, so yes you know how effective a .22 can be, however most folk will be shooting fox at a much greater distance so I'm sure your doing your level best for shooting sports recommending rimfire calibers for foxing. Me I'll stick to recommending a tool that can do the job with a higher chance of consistent clean kills rather than a 'well it should do the job cos I can do it at 20 yards out the bedroom window'......so I'll stick to my approach of centrefire for foxes thanks What are you talking about, there is no issue here which pests are protected or can be shot, we are not discussing protected species, are you suggesting the fox is protected? MOST of the community DO NOT shoot foxes at much greater distances regularly as has been demonstrated by numerous polls here and other sites, the Majority of foxes are shot within 100 yards. Most rimfires are perfectly capable of dispatching foxes at that distance. Of course many people including myself do shoot them further out, and on those occasions I would not generally be reaching for a .22lr/Rimfire as first choice, just where did I suggest I would be? Where have I ever said I recommend rimfire calibres for foxing, I have made it clear you use the CORRECT calibres for the job, and unlike some I can easily see that in many cases Rimfires are the best, correct, most appropriate and safest, of course there are times centrefires are more appropriate. Like I said, we have a different view here, but you can wriggle as much as you like and try and divert the issue as much as you like, you can also do what you like, it doesn't change the fact the HOME OFFFICE, who "control" shooting suggest Fox are Vermin. Edited June 19, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy boy 12g Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 don't mean to hijack this post but what is a aolq condition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 don't mean to hijack this post but what is a aolq condition? Any Other Lawful Quarry, sometimes to be found these days simply as ALQ, Any Lawful Quarry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 And it is defra who control the classifications of animals, what can and cannot be controlled and by what means, I think your failing to see the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) And it is defra who control the classifications of animals, what can and cannot be controlled and by what means, I think your failing to see the point I think you will find it is DEFRA with more than a bit of input from Natural England (And the Welsh/Scottish/NI authorities). However, we are not discussing what can and can't be controlled. We are not discussing the fox (or any other creatures) protected status or otherwise, or who gave it protected status. The question was about fox being vermin/pest/fox, at no point does the Home Office contradict any other rules/laws about what is protected and what isn't. The fox has No conditions, it is one of the very few shoot on sight animals. It has no season, the young are not protected, it has no calibre/energy restrictions and the Home Office are perfectly happy with Vermin from the point of view of definition. Whatever the answer, it has no bearing on DEFRA or its specific status, simply the definition on anyones FAC, and whichever way you like it, the FAC is ultimately down to the Home Office.. I don't think we are going to see to eye on this one and frankly I don't think there is any point pursuing the matter, I have put my case, let the public decide. ATB! Edited June 19, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Soooooooo... To my initial question... Hahahaha seems i have opened up a can here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 To my initial question... Fox are classed as vermin and your .22 is cleared for vermin, so you're fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Deckers and by that definition muntjac must be vermin..... Oh no actually they are deer! Your still not seeing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Deckers and by that definition muntjac must be vermin..... Oh no actually they are deer! Your still not seeing it What definition? What are you talking about? Muntjac are considered vermin by many, but the fact is they have their own legislation in the form of the Deer Act and amendments, that is a legal definition of how they can be treated, they are legally defined as deer, fox does not benefit from any such legislation and is considered vermin by the Home Office. There is no point in continuing this discussion as you appear to be struggling with the fact the Home Office define FAC rules/definitions, not DEFRA. Your still not seeing it? Edited June 20, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Deckers and by that definition muntjac must be vermin..... Oh no actually they are deer! Your still not seeing it Muntjac are not classed as vermin but they have no close season. They can be classed as vermin I believe, if damaging crops, but still have to be dealt with under the terms relevant to shooting that specific species, such as minimum calibre/energy etc. Whether the latter includes .22 rf I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Scully, And im using my 17, ive used 22 years back when I doubt there was this guidline. My local constabulary have said 17 os ok but recommended 223. So until i put variation in 17 it is.. Edited June 19, 2015 by ShootingEgg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Scully, And im using my 17, ive used 22 years back when I doubt there was this guidline. My local constabulary have said 17 os ok but recommended 223. So until i put variation in 17 it is.. Fair enough, but in that case I don't understand why you've asked the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Fair enough, but in that case I don't understand why you've asked the question. Mainly as alot of guys i know who shoot round here were under impression it was not allowed even though out feo had Said make it clean kill. Was more for clarification if id be better putting in for variation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1961 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 The only good Fox is a dead one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Soooooooo... To my initial question... Hahahaha seems i have opened up a can here... No just a normal day at the office lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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