Carman06 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I worked with a man who had a second child, it was definitely a influence that as he had a girl and a boy, once they were a certain age he HAD TO be moved to a bigger council house as they aren't expected to share a room. If I wanted my own house, or a bigger, better house, I'd start working hard to get the money, not start popping out kids and expect everyone else to chip in and pay towards it. Although I don't think the level of scrounging is often as high as the papers and media think out, I do think that many many "regular working" men and women take advantage of situations on the quiet. I dated a female copper for a bit who'd split from her partner on and off, even she told me that when they were back for a bit they still claim she was living alone and had better benefits / free nursery because of it. I think in the same situation I don't reckon there's a lot of people who would do any different. I think your right that people play the system for more benifits. I have two kids and had them young with first when I was just 21. However I was in secure employment in the military and married with my wife working. If we were not financially secure we wouldn't have had children. We will not have anymore either as once the second one came I had the op knowing not only did I not want more but I wouldn't be able to justify it. Personally I think there is justification for needing a licence to have children which can only be gained following checks on mental, physical and financial stability, by this I mean you should be allowed to have a child to save a failing marriage or bring a child into an abusive household. Because it's not fair on the child. Since our children were born we have paid all child benefit received into a savings scheme for the children so if something happened in the future for eg they would not have to be a burden to the state. Things in life are unpredictable and when circumstances change they should be supported. What I don't agree with is generation after generation claiming benifits because it's easyier then contributing to the economy and country using children as a ticket to extra cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted June 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I think some are confusing benefits that unemployed folk receive with tax payers support schemes for working parents which muddies the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 They are if you have more than a couple! Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I sincerely hope that the Tories both sort out the nightmare of benefits and in the process help parents. Having gone through the application process (I work full time, partner raises our daughter, housekeeps and is self employed) it is a pain in the **** from start to finish. Two parts of the benefits system I can't get my head around are firstly the need for any family with over £30,000 income pa to receive child tax credits. Secondly I don't know what the point is of receiving benefits only to be taxed to roughly the same amount (as we are.) Hopefully this will end soon. If it were up to me, I would take all those earning under £25,000 pa out of income tax altogether and do away with the benefits system entirely, with the exception of unemployment & disability payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Children aren't a lifestyle choice KW. Really? jeez plenty have kids purely as a source of income. KW They are if you have more than a couple! Why? Because if you choose to have more than two children and expect the state to pay for them you are placing a greater strain upon the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 So take it from that you do not claim child benefit..... I cant see how a thread about the government helping working families out with childcare turns into another thread about scroungers. People living off benefits will not gain from this new allowance it will help families with working parents. IMO for most people they are never able to get in a financial position to have children as people live to their means, its only once you have the kids you then change your lifestyle to suit your income. Assuming one of the parents has a reasonable job this is normally possible but does mean you may not have the new cars, holidays, or possibly need downsize the house to a more manageable mortgage. This wont cost the tax payer any more money as the idea is both parents will be able to work and of course put more money into the system. This isn't a tax free saving scheme to pay for a holiday or other luxury the payment will go to childminders, carers, nursery which of course gives more people more jobs. To add to that it means the government will then have a huge pot of the parents money which they can earn some interest on. Just remember as well there is a potential huge problem with an ageing population, the reason our system works is the working ages support the old and the young. For this to work the working age group needs to kept as high as possible over the long term, these government 'benefits' to families are just a way of encouraging this and keeping the balance where it needs to be. Of course there are always people who play the system regardless what the system is, however you should not tarnish the majority with the acts of the minority. At last some sense, this is about getting people into work (to pay tax) and off income support, were does the abitrary 2 kids is fine but 3 is a lifestyle choice to enable to greedy parents access to vast sums of money come from ? the government squander billions on god knows what and many on here are up in arms about a money making tax concession, by the way recent figures on raising a child through to university are estimated at over £200,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted June 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 At last some sense, this is about getting people into work (to pay tax) and off income support, were does the abitrary 2 kids is fine but 3 is a lifestyle choice to enable to greedy parents access to vast sums of money come from ? the government squander billions on god knows what and many on here are up in arms about a money making tax concession, by the way recent figures on raising a child through to university are estimated at over £200,000 Exactly, hence my quip about "up t'north" as all this benefits scrounging just got ridiculous, boring and off the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Because if you choose to have more than two children and expect the state to pay for them you are placing a greater strain upon the system If you canot afford children, you should not have any. Why is two acceptable if you do not have the means? Nobody should pay for anyone's family, idealy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 If you canot afford children, you should not have any. Why is two acceptable if you do not have the means? Nobody should pay for anyone's family, idealy. You surprised me with your comment and I completely agree with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Agreed, we had to pay for IVF ( which we expected to, having a child is not a right). I have said my daughter is the most expensive w**k i ever had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted June 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 All of this is not about rights/lifestyle etc, it is about politics. Mr Cameron has stated he will not stand at the '20 general election. This conservative government has the lowest percentage of the electorate behind it ever, at just 36.9%. They also have the lowest number of seats of any conservative government (including that of John Major!!). So their advantage of seats that gave them our permission to create a parliament is just 12 seats. If 6 leave they will be in difficulties and their life will be made hell (not dead as they have a right to full term) and that hell created will set us all back as our government will lose focus on the country to put themselves back on track to the next GE. So what does this mean? The conservative have got a lot of work to do to win the the next GE and this will be their main focus, complicating this is a change of leadership in about 2 years or so allowing them time to settle down again and win the next GE. Given the stats above they know they have a mountain to climb to get re-elected in '20 so they will try every trick in the book to make voters happy. Parents, sorry "Hard working men and women of Britain", are a primary target and anything that supports people working again and paying taxes is good for that. Giving the higher income earners a little feel good factor is also on track to more votes. Are their policies self serving? Of course they are!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 If the govt really want to make a difference, they should address the little fact that child poverty has risen for the first time in a decade, oops sorry they are going to address it they are changing the way the figures are collected. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Is it real poverty or is it the way that it's measured? 60% of median salary and even then if the parents don't prioritise? I don't know myself, i do know that with us and all the people we know, the children get looked after first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chady Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Why should I pay towards people's pensions! Why should I pay for bus passes Why should I pay for your medical treatment Why should I pay your benefits when your made redundant Why should I pay for your emergency services. It's what makes the world go round! Ps I have two children Me and my partner have all ways worked. I have had the chop as I do not want any more as it would affect the upbringing and there future! So we have worked out two is what we can afford and that's it. I know we get a bit child tax credits, my wife sorts it! Could we afford our kids without it. I don't know. I don't see it as a benefit I see it as a tax relief! It's what makes the world go by! Tell you what every one stops having allowances for children and people stop having children! Then when there is a shortage of workers, We can get foriners in to replace! Then you can moan about them..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 You surprised me with your comment and I completely agree with you! Why are you surprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 If the govt really want to make a difference, they should address the little fact that child poverty has risen for the first time in a decade, oops sorry they are going to address it they are changing the way the figures are collected. KW And child poverty fell during the recession when average earnings fell. Which is just perverse. It is obvious that the calculation of poverty is just wrong as it stands today. Rising when incomes rise and falling when incomes fall just doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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