mikewareing Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) I realy fancy a muzzle loading, black powder shotgun. I believe I can get one with my sgc, I realise I will need to obtain a Black powder permit. What else do I need to know about this? Are they available Nitro proofed? Are the reproduction guns readily available? and where from? All information greatfully recieved. Regards Mike Edited July 19, 2015 by mikewareing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 You need to know that it is an incurable illness and once infected you may be unable to resist buying another. Black powder permits are free and all the paperwork to fill in is usually on the police licencing website. You will also need to build or buy a black powder storage box. You can use black powder substitutes like Hodgdons 777 or Pyrodex without a BP licence or box. I've never seen a nitro proofed one, that sounds like a recipe for a KB! Plenty of reproduction guns available, you will find some for sale on Guntrader and loads of new ones for sale on Henry Kranks website. http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=694_920 There are plenty of different ignition types available from flintlock to percussion cap etc, personally I would stick with percussion cap for ease of use. You'll need to have an understanding wife for the cleaning..... BTW Underdog is the guy to speak to about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewareing Posted July 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Many thanks for the reply Regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Flintlocks are more fun and if you go that way only black powder will work. But your hair may fall out as the addiction takes hold. Don't use nitro if you like your face and fingers! You will start to think you need every accessory you come across but you don't. You need; Caps or flint. A powder flask or horn. A shot flask or horn or bag. A card punch about .030" larger than the bore. You will benefit from; Home made lubricant/grease made of natural fats and oils like bees wax melted with olive oil. Just using cards you stamped from card, old leather or felt hats for wads over full length fibre wads. Just using hot water to clean the gun and cleaning wet wipes. A good leather bag with spare flint and tool or nipple key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewareing Posted July 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 I am now getting quite excited, what about shooting a lead ball at targets, is this allowed? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 I am now getting quite excited, what about shooting a lead ball at targets, is this allowed? Mike Yes-provided you are a member of a gun club authorised for that particular type of firearm. Out in the fields is a no no and must stick to shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 As above, normal shotgun rules apply and a single ball would need FAC to shoot legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Actually I don't think you have to be a member of a club but have to be on an approved range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterbean Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Hi Iv just bought my first muzzle loader and wondered if anyone could give me some advice on loading the thing. How much powder to shot ect ect. Its a pietro arms 12g sbs. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Safe rule of thumb with muzzleloader shotguns, no more than equal amounts of powder to shot volume. Usually a little less volume of powder to shot does best. So in your 12g make a measure that holds 1oz or a little more of shot and use the same measure for your powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 `Little powder ,much lead ,shoots far & kills dead.` was the old maxim ! And no,you definitely can`t use nitro in a front loader for the OP`s benefit ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 As above, normal shotgun rules apply and a single ball would need FAC to shoot legally. Where muzzleloaders are concerned; SGC is all you need for a smoothbore and single ball, no FAC necessary - this only applies at an approved range with a suitable safety cert though. In 2013 the ACPO considered and decided against conditioning muzzleloaders for deer or fox so as far as I'm aware, nobody will be granted an FAC to use a muzzleloader with ball outside of a range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) I have always used a volume load for all my muzzleloaders Loads for a 10 .12 15 and 16 are the most used has follows 16 bore 2.1/2 drms of FFG or Meduim powder to 1 oz of shot 15 bore Same LOAD 12 Bore 2.3/4 drm of FFg or Medium powder to 1.1/8 oz of shot 12 bore heavy load 2.3/4 drms to 1/1/4 oz of shot 10 bore 3 drms of powder to 1.1/2 oz of shot The most popular way to load is Powder , 2 no 1/8 card wads shot 1no 1/16 overshot card wad. If a felt wad is used first powder ,1no 1/8 card wad , felt wad , 1no 1/8 card wad , shot , 1no 1/1/16 card wad, Always use a card wad on top of the felt wad because if this not used the shot embeds in the wad and leaves the muzzle like a bullet if also blows your pattern , for the over shot wad nothing less than a 1/16 wad , if thinner wads are used they are prone to clinging to the walls of the barrel which in turn becomes an obstruction and will burst your barrel Feltwad Edited December 29, 2015 by Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Great stuff FW. How will a thin OS card become an obstruction? Enough to 'blow your barrel'? I use thinner than 1/16" for many years. Never seen a wad become a bullet as you have experienced. I find a fibre wad on top of the shot with just a few thin cards on the powder works too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 With shot embeded in a felt wad I experienced this many years ago when shooting game at 30 + yards. Most were shot clean but some were not fit for the table with missing wings and the whole forend of the bird ,others were shot in two. I pattened several muzzleloaders on a pattening plate and found the problem as embeded shot in the feltwad it was also noticed that this caused a doenut pattern ,too overcome this I always if I use a feltwad put a 1/8 card wad on the top felt wad followered by the shot. Has for the overshot wad this should be no thinner than a 1/16 card, thinner wads are often by passed by the ramrod and cling to the barrel wall ,you will notice this when with draw the ramrod if you have any doubt always ram down another wad this will move the one in the barrel and set them on the shot . If a wad is left on the barrel wall it is an obstruction and can bulge or burst your barrel {see image} Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Are you certain that is how the barrel burst? Surley if a thin is card does not sit on the shot then surely the shot will pour out. I suspect more has gone wrong with the barrel in your image than a mere miss placed thin os card but that is just an opinion! I think your ways work and work well but I will continue with my thinner cards. I know when my cards are seated and they stay seated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 This burst barrel happened to a friend who was clay shooting with me ,at first I thought he had double charged or not seated the wads properly he said he had but he did explain that he was having trouble seating the wads with his ramrod ,i then new exactly what had happened because I have seen this happen on other occassions some with injury, any obstruction in the bore will burst or bulge a barrel snow is the most common also soil and even a spiders web Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 This burst barrel happened to a friend who was clay shooting with me ,at first I thought he had double charged or not seated the wads properly he said he had but he did explain that he was having trouble seating the wads with his ramrod ,i then new exactly what had happened because I have seen this happen on other occassions some with injury, any obstruction in the bore will burst or bulge a barrel snow is the most common also soil and even a spiders web Feltwad Ahhr now we are getting the full story So due to bad fouling management he short stroked a wad and not necessarily suffered any ill effects from a thin over shot card Got to keep that fouling soft gents! Looks like a Beretta tercentennial from here? U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) The gun was an original live pigeon gun Enclosed are a couple of images of my pair of Berrettas Feltwad Edited December 29, 2015 by Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 You are sitting on a fortune and out of my league! I don't recall my Beretta having a cheek piece! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) When these guns first came on the UK market they were priced if my memory is right at £300 pound in 1986, they did not sell because you could buy a good shooting original for half the price so dealers were left with them .It was not long before the price reduced to affordable level so I bought a pair .These guns for a firm like Berretta had many faults mostly the locks ,springs were weak and would not fire the caps , screws were soft and needed re tempering on some the screw on the breech of the bottom barrel had a gas leek and soon burnt a hole in the stock of plain walnut . I customised these which now give me little trouble when in the field Feltwad Edited December 29, 2015 by Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Yes they were crude but shouldered well and shoot ball really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) Here you go then lads Found this a starting load please one a gestimate to age maker maybe fun Few more pics to follow That's a 12 bore case in the bore Thought it may n help for size And the barrel is a yard long Just for a bit of fun Apologies to op not trying to hijac thread just a bit of interest Al the best Of Edited December 29, 2015 by Old farrier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Old Farrier. Looks an interesting piece who is the maker ? Feltwad Edited December 30, 2015 by Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 OF, in your first photos I can see what looks like a black soot mark near the breach plug! What is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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