steve_b_wales Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I had a website link given me for a company that sell a forming die to convert the above. I intend to order one if my friend cannot manage to make one. Here's the link: http://www.bullberry.com/reloading_supplies.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) I think this technique (at least for 22 hornet to 17 hornet) was 'pioneered' by an American individual who has some videos on YouTube under the nom de guerre 'Guard Dog Actual' (must be a former Marine then?). Anyway, he worked out that to size .22 hornet to .17 you needed a 'tween' die and suggested that you ask your local machine shop to make some up - you have to love the US, they actually still have things like 'local machine shops'. All the thread sizes and hole sizes are stated in the video so, if you know anyone handy with a lathe, you could have one made for yourself for a whole lot less. The only downside that I could see to the process was the stresses placed on the brass. After 'tweening' and then resizing without the pip, you then need to full length resize with the pip. Once that is done the .22 hornet needs to be annealed otherwise it's going to burst at the neck. Then trimmed. Even after all the resizing and annealing, some will still burst along the case body during the fire forming process. It looked like a 10% fail rate, not bad provided you're getting the donor brass for free I guess. It all seemed a bit complimicatified for a numpty like me. It probably isn't though. I'll see if I can find a link to the video... Edited October 30, 2015 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 By the way, I found these loads (from Hornady) elsewhere on the web. But as usual, use at your own risk and work up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I suppose it does give the opportunity to use Federal or Winchester brass rather than Hornady's offerings (which I always found a little poop in the press in 243 & 222). Plus, there shouldn't be any concerns with headspace as hornet brass is belted, although I'm sure someone will correct me shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Isnt the rim on the 17 hornet quite a bit thinner than the 22 ? Karl. Edited October 30, 2015 by Amazed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 I suppose it does give the opportunity to use Federal or Winchester brass rather than Hornady's offerings (which I always found a little poop in the press in 243 & 222). Plus, there shouldn't be any concerns with headspace as hornet brass is belted, although I'm sure someone will correct me shortly.Rimmed rather than belted Isnt the rim on the 17 hornet quite a bit thinner than the 22 ? Karl. Should be the same, the .17 is based on a necked down .22 hornet case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 I've just compared the both, side by side, and they are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Everything I've read states it's just a 22 case necked down to 17. And yes, rimmed not belted, my mistake. What do you think about annealing them after Steve? I only ask as I am considering the calibre in place of my slot for 223. The thinking is thus: I want something like the hmr, but that can be reloaded to give greater control. I like the little 17 round, it's extremely frangible and perfect for flinty ground, I can count the ricochets I've discerned on the fingers of one hand. It would give me a rabbit (head shot) and foxing rifle in one rifle rather than having to take two or leave the fox till next time. My 243 can be reloaded for everything else, from fox to fallow. Sorry, for taking your thread off track Steve. Edited October 30, 2015 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Everything I've read states it's just a 22 case necked down to 17. And yes, rimmed not belted, my mistake. What do you think about annealing them after Steve? I only ask as I am considering the calibre in place of my slot for 223. The thinking is thus: I want something like the hmr, but that can be reloaded to give greater control. I like the little 17 round, it's extremely frangible and perfect for flinty ground, I can count the ricochets I've discerned on the fingers of one hand. It would give me a rabbit (head shot) and foxing rifle in one rifle rather than having to take two or leave the fox till next time. My 243 can be reloaded for everything else, from fox to fallow. Sorry, for taking your thread off track Steve. Hi Mick. No problem mate. Regarding annealing the cases, looking at the video, it seems easy enough. I'm having some .22 Hornet cases resized for me by a PW member. I presume that they will be annealed as well, but if not, I'm happy to give it a go, as it looks easy enough. I haven't used my .17 Hornet properly so far, apart from zeroing it at 110 yards, and shooting one Crow. I agree that it's an excellent calibre and I'm looking forward to trying it again soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Let me know what it 'actually' does to a rabbit if head shot. I pass all mine onto a game dealer as I just hate wasting them (those that don't get eaten or go into the dog food) so, not having a bloody mess is handy, hence the hmr. However, I hear mixed reviews on the 17 hornet, some say its fine on a rabbit, others say it ruins the meat on the body and causes to much damage. It would be nice to get a 'real' opinion before putting in for a variation (again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 cases arrived today steve will get them resized full length sized and annealed next week.....you will need to reduce load and fireform them then trim them to length...... don't trim before hand as they will pull the neck back. You will lose 1 or2 but not 10% its not usually splitting that damages them its putting the bullet in straight if its not perfect they will crush the neck due to annealing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) think its older than 'Guard Dog Actual mick they been forming brass for the .17ackley hornet for years bud. ive had mine 4+ years now lol Edited October 30, 2015 by SPARKIE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 cases arrived today steve will get them resized full length sized and annealed next week.....you will need to reduce load and fireform them then trim them to length...... don't trim before hand as they will pull the neck back. You will lose 1 or2 but not 10% its not usually splitting that damages them its putting the bullet in straight if its not perfect they will crush the neck due to annealing.. No worries mate, and I appreciate your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Let me know what it 'actually' does to a rabbit if head shot. I pass all mine onto a game dealer as I just hate wasting them (those that don't get eaten or go into the dog food) so, not having a bloody mess is handy, hence the hmr. However, I hear mixed reviews on the 17 hornet, some say its fine on a rabbit, others say it ruins the meat on the body and causes to much damage. It would be nice to get a 'real' opinion before putting in for a variation (again). Not shot at a rabbit yet, but at 130 yards, it smashed the Crow's body up well and truly. Head shots on rabbits will be fine. I've head shot rabbits with my 22-250 and .243, and the body was untouched and okay. No waste of meat at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Ah, sorry Sparkie. I'm only going off the info for 17 hornet I could find online. Are you able to give me a little more info on the process (either pm, email or phone) please? I'm pretty certain it would be the best of both worlds for me, I could effectively get by then with the hornet and 243, keeping the hmr for pure bunny work on smaller perms. It's the process of reforming and availability of actual 17 brass that puts me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Hope you don't mind me coming into the conversation. Below is a magpie I shot at 100yards with the 17 hornet front on in the chest, obviously what you can see is the left over of its back. I doubt you will get any meat damage if head shot. The cost of buying brass is expensive (£36/50). The cost of factory loads at my local is £40/50. You have the choice of firing the factory loads, the reload or another option is to pull the bullet in the factory load and re prime, load with your cocktail and use the pulled heads. I'm currently using federal primers and 11.4 grains of H4198. Edited October 30, 2015 by markm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euget123 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Let me know what it 'actually' does to a rabbit if head shot. I pass all mine onto a game dealer as I just hate wasting them (those that don't get eaten or go into the dog food) so, not having a bloody mess is handy, hence the hmr. However, I hear mixed reviews on the 17 hornet, some say its fine on a rabbit, others say it ruins the meat on the body and causes to much damage. It would be nice to get a 'real' opinion before putting in for a variation (again). Both these were shot at about 120 yards!(i think it was a wile ago)Head shot is fine! Front of the chest blows a decent hole but the saddle meet is fine! As u can see Edited October 30, 2015 by Euget123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euget123 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Very occasionly it gets a bit more severe! ET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Gory, but useful. Thank you. Looks a little worse than the hummer but not terrible. Whether it was the ammo or not but I tried a 223 with BT's a few weeks ago and it made a considerable mess in comparison , which isn't ideal. I wonder whether I could dispense with the hmr entirely if I opt for the hornet instead... hmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Gory, but useful. Thank you. Looks a little worse than the hummer but not terrible. Whether it was the ammo or not but I tried a 223 with BT's a few weeks ago and it made a considerable mess in comparison , which isn't ideal. I wonder whether I could dispense with the hmr entirely if I opt for the hornet instead... hmmmm im sure you could I keep my hmr for big jobs where I need lots of ammo cheap. and im not bothered about collecting brass Let me know what it 'actually' does to a rabbit if head shot. I pass all mine onto a game dealer as I just hate wasting them (those that don't get eaten or go into the dog food) so, not having a bloody mess is handy, hence the hmr. However, I hear mixed reviews on the 17 hornet, some say its fine on a rabbit, others say it ruins the meat on the body and causes to much damage. It would be nice to get a 'real' opinion before putting in for a variation (again). ive had some where they hollow there heads out others there heads gone but im .17ackley hornet......running 11.5 grain reloader 7 and 20grain vmax with cci br primer. Ah, sorry Sparkie. I'm only going off the info for 17 hornet I could find online. Are you able to give me a little more info on the process (either pm, email or phone) please? I'm pretty certain it would be the best of both worlds for me, I could effectively get by then with the hornet and 243, keeping the hmr for pure bunny work on smaller perms. It's the process of reforming and availability of actual 17 brass that puts me off. I can do im getting ready to go away for a few days so will sort it when I get back. the bullberry dies are double ended and work very well. I set the die bump the neck in .20 swap the die round and bump to .17 the full legth size with a hornady die. anneal, reduce charge, fireform, fl resize, clean, cut to length, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Gory, but useful. Thank you. Looks a little worse than the hummer but not terrible. Whether it was the ammo or not but I tried a 223 with BT's a few weeks ago and it made a considerable mess in comparison , which isn't ideal. I wonder whether I could dispense with the hmr entirely if I opt for the hornet instead... hmmmm Get yourself a .17 Hornet Mick, you know you want to. And reloading it works out around the same price, or cheaper, than a .17 HMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euget123 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Gory, but useful. Thank you. Looks a little worse than the hummer but not terrible. Whether it was the ammo or not but I tried a 223 with BT's a few weeks ago and it made a considerable mess in comparison , which isn't ideal. I wonder whether I could dispense with the hmr entirely if I opt for the hornet instead... hmmmm Honestly wouldnt see the need for the hummer!Ive the 22lr when ive to be quiet and the hornet for everything else!obivously if you were shooting lots of foxes a bigger 22 centerfire may be in order! See what u meen about the brass but u can get the hang of fast reloads whilecatching the brass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Anneal the cases before you size them down AND again afterwards and prior to first loading If you dont you will get neck splits and cases lasting no more than a handfull of cycles. I have necked down 22 Hornet cases to make cases for my 17 Ackley Hornet but the Hornady Hornet is a slightly shorter case. The cost of 17HH brass is not to bad, personally thats the way I would go. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 That's what I'm now thinking. It seems a shame as I don't really rate Hornady brass and would prefer to use something else. But the die set Steve linked to isn't available for (legal) export so it makes the whole process even more of a pain in the behind. I do have a machine shop I could ask to make a tween die locally, but I think the cost would be prohibitive. Still hasn't put me off the idea of owning one though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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