ShaggyRS6 Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 Hi all, I currently have a SG Cert, of late though I have been using my Air Rifle and really enjoy it. I enjoy it so much that I was thinking of applying for a FAC so I could get a FAC Air Rifle. Problem I have though is land. I have a couple of permissions, the one I just got not enough room for a Rifle. Its an orchard. I guess 200m wide by 1000m long. Would this distance be a no no for a FAC Air rifle. My other permission is 150 Acres, but I can only use non toxic ammo. is that a problem? (Obviously with a Non Air rifle) Secondly is it worth the hassle for the amount of time I could shoot? How much hassle is applying for a FAC? Sorry to be a bit up and down with the questions. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethevanman Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 Hi all, I currently have a SG Cert, of late though I have been using my Air Rifle and really enjoy it. I enjoy it so much that I was thinking of applying for a FAC so I could get a FAC Air Rifle. Problem I have though is land. I have a couple of permissions, the one I just got not enough room for a Rifle. Its an orchard. I guess 200m wide by 1000m long. Would this distance be a no no for a FAC Air rifle. My other permission is 150 Acres, but I can only use non toxic ammo. is that a problem? (Obviously with a Non Air rifle) Secondly is it worth the hassle for the amount of time I could shoot? How much hassle is applying for a FAC? Sorry to be a bit up and down with the questions. Lee depends which way you are shooting?, the cost of a fac air rifle is huge copared to to a S/H or new 22lr, I would hang on and rely on the good will you build up with people on who's land you currently shoot, ask for references to gain other land, I had a fac air rifle at first Theoben rapid 7, cost a fortune and was heavy. build up trust and go for 22lr, try and go to a range, to try one, because then you are not just applying out of the blue, and you have some experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted May 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 Thanks for that. Next Question. Do you have to belong to a club? Do you have to have a mentor? Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Cup, I have been looking into FAC air and reckon a new setup with a rifle capable of producing 40ftlbs + is gonna set me back around £1500, where as a new CZ rf with scope is around £500! The second hand FAC market is good, or you could see how much daystate would charge to uptune your RWS 500? I would say the 150acres permission is a no no with an air rifle, as lead pellets are "toxic". As for the orchard, I would imagine that would easily get clearance for FAC air and possibly even HMR on the basis the trees would provide a backstop, easily fragmenting a HMR Round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted May 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Interesting. What about being a member of a club, and having a mentor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 The most impostant thing you need to do is 'prove good reason' for owning anything FAC. Just saying "Because I enjoy it and want something more powerful" won't hack it with the FEO. Also, ignore the advice about using trees as a backstop, this is a totally incorrect and rather stupid comment, a pellet/bullet can quite possibly pass between trees, and how can you be certain there won't be someone standing in those trees but hidden from your view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 The most impostant thing you need to do is 'prove good reason' for owning anything FAC. Just saying "Because I enjoy it and want something more powerful" won't hack it with the FEO. Also, ignore the advice about using trees as a backstop, this is a totally incorrect and rather stupid comment, a pellet/bullet can quite possibly pass between trees, and how can you be certain there won't be someone standing in those trees but hidden from your view? Well 200m should be enough clearance for FAC air, espically should the land slope. HMR and air rifle pellets will possibly pass between the trees but as stated the 200m would be sufficent for clearing an air rifle (not sure on a FLO's opnion of hmr, i would say no personally). The reason I said the possibly is the fact that having trees around would provide more of a potential backstop than 200m of open land which would not get clearance. I suggest banding the word stupid around with unpromptual backing or a solid enough reason could potentially the desired effect of called others stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_HMR Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Hm2 might be worth a look as well don't know how popular it is over there but its a good little round that has its uses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted May 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 I think I might apply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_HMR Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Go for it you'll love popping off magpies at 100yards you sound like a sensible bloke who's done his homework shouldnt have a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Go ahead and apply Lee, you have nothing to lose. Just make sure you have good reason. i.e. Longer range vermin, better accuracy on longer range vermin, more stopping power on vermin. (These are just a few thoughts of mine, I'm sure you can come up with more). Get written permission from your landowners. Get maps of your permission showing any footpaths etc, and very important....know your permission. Just DO NOT rely on trees for a backstop, as Naddan suggests, you will be refused if your FEO has half a brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Yes dont rely on them for backstops, but personally I imagine the existance of trees would be more of a plus than a negative for getting your rifle cleared. Personally, I dont know whether I would want to shoot anything over a FAC air rifle in an orchard but its you and your FEO's decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 I really wish some people would engage their brain before making statements regarding safety. A backstop is just that, a stop. Something that without question you can guarantee that will stop a bullet. Trees, hedges and so forth are not backstops and should never be considered such. To suggest they are is plain foolish. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 One of the safety questions on DSC 1: What is the best form of backstop? 1 A dense screen of bushes and scrub which will absorb the bullet. 2 A rising bank of soft ground. 3 A belt of trees or a thick plantation. 4 Clear air, i.e. silhouette target with nothing behind deer. Answer being no 2 not the trees!!! Food for thought maybe ? GH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 I am not saying to use the tree's as backstops but what I am saying is some element of solid object is better than none. Obviously GH a nice mound of soft ground directly behind the target is ideal but not everything in this world happens that way! Hence why I said personally I would not shoot anything over FAC air in an orchard but I am not a FEO, so I am not in a position to say categoricly whether the orchard is safe to shoot or not. All i said is the inclusion of some form of solid objects would probably be a plus with regards to getting clearance for shooting a .17hmr due to the fragmenting round properties of a HMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 As for the orchard, I would imagine that would easily get clearance for FAC air and possibly even HMR on the basis the trees would provide a backstop, easily fragmenting a HMR Round. I am not saying to use the tree's as backstops but what I am saying is some element of solid object is better than none. Not have a go, but you need to make you mind up on this one naddan28, it's advice like this, that wouldn't give CupramanRR any ground to gain a FC. I can imagine the look on FEO face, ( Trees for Backstops ) BJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plinker Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 naddan do you hold a fac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted May 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 I'm gonna give my Fire Arms Officer a call tomorrow. He is a very freindly chap. I shall seek his advice also. Maybe I can talk him into comming over to see the orchard first before I start the process. Cup of tea and a doughnut should do the trick Thanksf or advice so far eveyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 I don't think naddan was suggesting using a tree as a backstop. I think he means that if a HMR bullet did hit a tree then it would break up, rather than fly on if it wasn't there. He doesn't have an FAC, and is learning about these things at the moment. Don't have a go at the lad for writing his thoughts badly, we all do it sometimes. Anyone applying for something as serious as a FAC shouldn't take everything on here as correct anyway, and would do well to do more homework before relying on a comment from a stranger to get through an interview! It wasn't the best thing to say, but I'm sure he didn't mean it to sound as it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Hi all, I currently have a SG Cert, of late though I have been using my Air Rifle and really enjoy it. I enjoy it so much that I was thinking of applying for a FAC so I could get a FAC Air Rifle. Problem I have though is land. I have a couple of permissions, the one I just got not enough room for a Rifle. Its an orchard. I guess 200m wide by 1000m long. Would this distance be a no no for a FAC Air rifle. My other permission is 150 Acres, but I can only use non toxic ammo. is that a problem? (Obviously with a Non Air rifle) Secondly is it worth the hassle for the amount of time I could shoot? How much hassle is applying for a FAC? Sorry to be a bit up and down with the questions. Lee Barnes x bullets ( solid copper expanding) for .22cf, used in a .222/3 would meet this requirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted May 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2007 Great. Nobody has mentioned I need a mentor for a Rifle. Can someone confirm this this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted May 4, 2007 Report Share Posted May 4, 2007 Great. Nobody has mentioned I need a mentor for a Rifle. Can someone confirm this this? you may need 1 - all depends on your local FAO - if he thinks you need a mentor to give you more experiance then he will requst this on your ticket . Hope this Helps Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted May 4, 2007 Report Share Posted May 4, 2007 I don't think naddan was suggesting using a tree as a backstop. I think he means that if a HMR bullet did hit a tree then it would break up, rather than fly on if it wasn't there. He doesn't have an FAC, and is learning about these things at the moment. Don't have a go at the lad for writing his thoughts badly, we all do it sometimes. Anyone applying for something as serious as a FAC shouldn't take everything on here as correct anyway, and would do well to do more homework before relying on a comment from a stranger to get through an interview! It wasn't the best thing to say, but I'm sure he didn't mean it to sound as it did. I was not suggesting that Cupra rely on the trees as backstop and as I have said I wouldn't personally shoot anything over FAC Air in that sort of orchard (repeated for the 4th time now). What I meant is that on the basis of the tree's being there to fragment a HMR round it would possibly help get clearance from a FEO as some form of backstop is better than none. Although I may be wrong, perhaps everyone prefer's no backstop whatsoever to some form of backstop? Thanks for the bashing anyway and thanks for NJC for being able to actually understand a potentially ill worded post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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