TONY R Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 As the title anyone on here hunt English pointers or setters on here, i want a little advice if you could spare the time please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Know off a few grouse keepers with EP's but more just for counting grouse. Generally the UK ones don't retrieve, althou in europe they are expected to retrieve Deoending wot type of shooting u do a setter may be a slower choice, EP's are designed for covering big areas. In my opinion even less suited as a 'normal' shooting dog than an hpr breed and i don't really consider them to be that suitable either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted June 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I dont want either breed but someone who runs these dogs at the longer ranges, My curent GSP is from all German bloodlines and has some strong drive, he will go out to 5 600 yards with confidence, which suits me up here on the moors, but once hes past say 300 350 he starts to get sticky about responding to the whistle if i need him too. I run a 211 and a half its fine at 3 350 but once he is out further i dont know if he hears it or not. Read i a book years ago when i got my GSP they worked best on i think it was a 640 but i used the normal whistle i always used and managed, but this dog unlike my others who seemed to have like a built in 350 max yard range. this one will go further, but rather than turning when i want him to he is slow and goes accros further than i want him too quite often, its like hes not hearing it. I took a kids football whistle with me last year when i use that he stops dead and looks back straight at me, but i cant pip him to turn with it, its like a pea type whistrle its just a long rolling whistle ok for calling him off, but not practical for working him. Only other option is a e collar and buzz him to turn, but i want to try and make him respond to a proper whistle, Did not know what English pointer hunters did for operating them at long range, settetrs the same. You see europeans with small horns they cant use then other than recalling can they.? any input on a suitable whistle for long range would be handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I inherited my Dads Irish Setter when the setter was 4 was. He doesn't respond at long distance. I use a collar with just the vibrate as I disabled the shock function on it. It works for recall. Not managed to get anywhere with other commands via the collar, buts thats probably down to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted June 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 He is not so bad at recall i can get him home ok but is i want to cover a area in two or three sweeps i cant get him to turn at the end of each span, he runs wider than i want when i check him, i only have the 211 and a half. i just dont think he is hearing it or put it this way hes not responding to it, turns like a champ at 3 350 then as he is out more he gets worse. The cheap football whistle he hears that but it just stops him so he looks back, and he will come back with that, but i cant get him to turn with it because its not possible to blow it two shapr pips its like a rooling whistle. but he hears that at 600 and takes notice. Dont really want to run an e collar on him, but if i want to run him at long range i think i might have to, Because he is confident right out there i dont want to reighn him in all the time, i want to let him go as long as i can keep him doing what i want. Could it be a whistle change solve it, any input on the 640 it sounds on the write ups to be a long range whistle. or any other pitch you use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 If he is looking back to you might be able to you get him to change direction by hand/arm signals. Pointing to his left or right or using a signal to turn away or back. The main problem I have with Logan is if he gets any distance from me he goes selectively deaf and starts doing what he wants to do. The vibrate mode on the collar breaks his concentration and gets him focussed back on what I want him doing. When I bought it I opened it up and reversed the electrode fittings into the collar fitting and covered them over with a blob of hotmelt glue. They then can't be activated accidently. The only problem with using one of these is they are limited on distance and wearing a collar he could get snagged up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Have you tried a sheep dog whistle. The shepherds use these on long distances. Dad trained Logan with one of these, but unfortunatley I have never managed to use one. If you can use one they are quite loud and you can blow a variety of signals with them. Acme make these too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedge Posted July 7, 2016 Report Share Posted July 7, 2016 If you think he's not hearing a 211.5 at distance try this: http://www.fox40whistles.co.uk/fox40/default.aspx The Fox 40 sports whistle is pealess, loud and you can easily double pip with it (not as easily as a dog whistle though). American Football ref's use them and I use them to umpire hockey matches (where you use a double pip so I know it can be done). Worth a go? I use the Classic but the Classic Eclipse is new and looks quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted July 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) Hi hedge just to let you know i got the fox 40 classic hes been going great on this turns on two at 400 500 yards its like night and day compared to the 211.5 mate is adamant a 640 was what i needed but having seen this whistle in action hes warming to it. Im happy with it its given me the confidence i need to run him at long range he was sticky on the 211. Hes been on the classic nearly three weeks now and im confident its what he needed very pleased with it thank you for the advice Tony. id like to thank scots and lori for advice given too cheers. Edited July 28, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedge Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Tony, Sorry for the slow reply - I had a cheeky long weekend in Norfolk. I'm so pleased that the Fox 40 is having a positive impact. You may well find another whistle in the future that works even better but at least you're making progress! Good luck with it all. PS - Our hay man came good so we've got plenty of fresh stuff for the horse :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Thanks for that hes doing ok. But still lots more to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 I cannot take part any more.... bl##dy sciatica ... but in my view shooting grouse over English Pointers is one fine day out. I was fortunate when I could walk the moors in having a superb handler and dogs to shoot over. If you scroll around Lowther ...Shooting grouse over pointers on youtube you will see them in action. I think it may have been a Field Sports Channel production. Training, training, training is the answer no short cuts. They rarely tell you lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 I cannot take part any more.... bl##dy sciatica ... but in my view shooting grouse over English Pointers is one fine day out. I was fortunate when I could walk the moors in having a superb handler and dogs to shoot over. If you scroll around Lowther ...Shooting grouse over pointers on youtube you will see them in action. I think it may have been a Field Sports Channel production. Training, training, training is the answer no short cuts. They rarely tell you lies. There you go folks..... thanks walker . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedge Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 Watched the video last night and really enjoyed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1nut Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 We have 4 English pointers and found the acme 212 was the one they would respond to at distance. Someone told me once it's something to do with the length of ear canal? Not sure how true this is but all I know is we tried a few and found this to be best. If we hear the same pitch whistle when we are out they take notice, no walkers or dog in sight but their ears respond!! It seems to travel well and the best thing is no matter how you blow the pitch is always the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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