greenergp Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) I used the Claygame cartridge testing service for the first time recently, i was quite impressed i just emailed them all the details of the load i wanted to do and they loaded and tested 5 cartridges of that load and sent me the details when it was done. The load was one that had "made up" from an assortment of published loads but substituting some of the components for ones that i had at hand. It turned out pretty well the velocity was good and the pressure was well within safe levels. I will be using the service again if i want to try out unknown load data. Edited December 15, 2016 by greenergp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Not sure how much confidence I would have in the results their are so many variables that can impact on the pressure which is the safety important measurement. New or old case, wad seating pressure, crimp pressure and especially crimp depth can all have a significant impact. At best it is a guide, better I would say to have your own cartridges tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Not sure how much confidence I would have in the results their are so many variables that can impact on the pressure which is the safety important measurement. New or old case, wad seating pressure, crimp pressure and especially crimp depth can all have a significant impact. At best it is a guide, better I would say to have your own cartridges tested. I think the OP is referring to getting his cartridges tested by their service ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Not sure how much confidence I would have in the results their are so many variables that can impact on the pressure which is the safety important measurement. New or old case, wad seating pressure, crimp pressure and especially crimp depth can all have a significant impact. At best it is a guide, better I would say to have your own cartridges tested. How is their service any different from going by published and tested load data that is already available? No mention in data of new or old case etc etc. I'll answer it for you, it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 As I read it the op emailed the load data to C&G who then manufactured five cartridges to the data and tested them. Whilst this will give some measured values, velocity and pressure it is not a given that the cartridges the op then makes will perform the same. It is a useful idea to reduces the risk from an unexpected high pressure but does not totally eliminate it or give absolute measured performance of your cartridges. But it also saves the need to take your cartridges to Birmingham for testing. So yes it is not a lot different to using published data we accept or trust the data to deliver to the published figures but variation due to way in which the cartridge is manufactured will result. I have experienced that with different lots of the same cartridge made months apart and when tested at Birmingham they give different results. My idea was to create a reference cartridge so if I changed from a gualandi wad to a B&P wad I would know it increased or reduced the pressure by so many bar but in practice even the reference cartridge varied between lots if the wad seating pressure or crimp closure varied. I now record overal length of my cartridges to try and keep these variations to a minimum. So I would say a useful service but for absolute measurements you need the cartridges you make to be the cartridges tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenergp Posted December 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Yes the were loaded by Claygame to the specifications given by me, they were new cases and were crimped and gaep finished, i know that 10 different cartridges loaded by 10 different guys would give different pressure ratings. But by sending the loads to be tested at least gives me some sort of figure to work from rather than just "winging it" and loading up any old load and hoping for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 But by sending the loads to be tested at least gives me some sort of figure to work from rather than just "winging it" and loading up any old load and hoping for the best. Fully agree, if you don't mind saying how much did they charge for the service as unable to find it on their website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenergp Posted December 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 It cost £32 to have the cartridges loaded and tested, this was a bit more than normal because the loads were loaded with Powershot. I cant find the info on the testing on the claygame site but i found our about it from one of the flyers they send out when to receive an order from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenholland Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 gave them my cart's at the midland, Weston park still waiting for the result's after 10 phone calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 gave them my cart's at the midland, Weston park still waiting for the result's after 10 phone calls. that is not good. I used the Claygame cartridge testing service for the first time recently, i was quite impressed i just emailed them all the details of the load i wanted to do and they loaded and tested 5 cartridges of that load and sent me the details when it was done. The load was one that had "made up" from an assortment of published loads but substituting some of the components for ones that i had at hand. It turned out pretty well the velocity was good and the pressure was well within safe levels. I will be using the service again if i want to try out unknown load data. i use the birmingham proofhouse. cartridges have statistics done on them to ascertain the second criteria for a pass / fail. its not unheard of for a shell to pass the ptmax threshold and fail on the second criteria. whilst i do applaud you for seeking proof of the pudding. i have always believed in the "do it yourself" kind of thinking. not to poo poo clay game service... i just wouldnt like a 3rd party to be in total control of anything i make or suggest to be made. you could ask me to load up x-y-z, and it could be just bad. there is bad data out there. mainly guys trying to fit too much in the hulls, or trying to use the lightest payload with the heavyest powder heavy charging. either hoping that one shell in ten gets that magic 1500.1fps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 gave them my cart's at the midland, Weston park still waiting for the result's after 10 phone calls. I met them at the Game Fair at Scone and gave them few batches; they had a lot of problem setting up with a lot of fuse being blown in the process and waiting for spares to come; so they are now in a backlog. Be patient and you will get yours as i got mine The proofing is an effective tool to gaue the change in burning rate between batches; It also give you an understanding of why you should never replicate factory loads... i had a load tested with A1 and 27 gr of lead #5: the NS website quote 27gr with a pressure of 700 bar in a 70mm shell ... mine went way over and only passed the high performance test ... just as an example .... Like anything dynamic in life, variables are there....the good thinng is learn how to read them. No shell will have the same specs; but no man is the same, no one day is the same ... yet we take them for certain... Proofing is the best test you can do to see how your shell performs (forget the chrony and the shenanigans proofing barre is the best of the best and i owned one until few months back) it provides you with PMax and speed and, in association with the pattern test it gives a the best possible idea of how the shell will perform: a variation of 50-70 bar is normal ... so its a 10-20 mt/s, that doesn't make the test worthles, indeed it helps understand what are the reaches of it; and, BTW, is always better than the 'too many time heard on this forum' : that's what i've been doing for 20 years, or that's what i heard people doing. Any kind of scientific and proofed testing is better than non or much better than ignorance RB, since you're always so sceptical on tests and science behind reloading: how would you know if any of your loads is overpressure? Surely you wouldn't want to wait for the gun to go bang to assess that... (just joking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 RB, since you're always so sceptical on tests and science behind reloading: how would you know if any of your loads is overpressure? Surely you wouldn't want to wait for the gun to go bang to assess that... (just joking) Hello continental shooter, if you read what I said I use the services of the Birmingham proof house to test mine. And yes all my guns go bang, well all except my .22lr with subs and a sound mod. Merry Christmas to you (and all on the forum). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB1954 Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 I met them at the Game Fair at Scone and gave them few batches; they had a lot of problem setting up with a lot of fuse being blown in the process and waiting for spares to come; so they are now in a backlog. Be patient and you will get yours as i got mine The proofing is an effective tool to gaue the change in burning rate between batches; It also give you an understanding of why you should never replicate factory loads... i had a load tested with A1 and 27 gr of lead #5: the NS website quote 27gr with a pressure of 700 bar in a 70mm shell ... mine went way over and only passed the high performance test ... just as an example .... Like anything dynamic in life, variables are there....the good thinng is learn how to read them. No shell will have the same specs; but no man is the same, no one day is the same ... yet we take them for certain... Proofing is the best test you can do to see how your shell performs (forget the chrony and the shenanigans proofing barre is the best of the best and i owned one until few months back) it provides you with PMax and speed and, in association with the pattern test it gives a the best possible idea of how the shell will perform: a variation of 50-70 bar is normal ... so its a 10-20 mt/s, that doesn't make the test worthles, indeed it helps understand what are the reaches of it; and, BTW, is always better than the 'too many time heard on this forum' : that's what i've been doing for 20 years, or that's what i heard people doing. Any kind of scientific and proofed testing is better than non or much better than ignorance RB, since you're always so sceptical on tests and science behind reloading: how would you know if any of your loads is overpressure? Surely you wouldn't want to wait for the gun to go bang to assess that... (just joking) I did same thing handed over my cartridges at Scone then a bit of a delay while they got teething problems sorted. Overall a good service and would use again plus may get them to load and test some to my spec. Cannot see the difference between that and me taking a recipe from a manual and loading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Cannot see the difference between that and me taking a recipe from a manual and loading it. Agreed, I had a quick run of 28grm and 30grm 7.5 sat over CSB5 tested by them in a Comp X clay cartridge. I had no data to start with and a tub of powder to burn and it's enabled me to just confirm the velocity and pattern check the gun...job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 Agreed, I had a quick run of 28grm and 30grm 7.5 sat over CSB5 tested by them in a Comp X clay cartridge. I had no data to start with and a tub of powder to burn and it's enabled me to just confirm the velocity and pattern check the gun...job done. I found that most manual recipes when tested properly are nowhere near the quoted parameter; also, CSB5 from 3 years ago is nowhere near the powder it is today; so all manual will go out of date pretty soon (although they should still be safe to start off with) and reproofing is a must for 1- be safe 2- make sure you're shooting the cartridge you wanted to. This is like taking the car to the garage to change the break pad and the mechanic telling you ' yeah, i changed the pad, but not tried if it worked ... the manual says it's fine...' would you drive yoru car up to its limit and then try to break? i don't think so.... so why do the same with cartridges?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 Hello continental shooter, if you read what I said I use the services of the Birmingham proof house to test mine. And yes all my guns go bang, well all except my .22lr with subs and a sound mod. Merry Christmas to you (and all on the forum). fair point, i missed that bit RB We should all invite people to take advantage of these services (especially you folks doon south) where viable; for the sake of a 5er or 10er you can proof our loads and shoot in all safety it's silly not to... If i lived closed to any proof house i'd be run out of money pretty soon evry month unfortunately we, in the upper side of the island, are severly disadvantaged by the lack of proofing barrels anywhere close by and unreasonable carriers! So, for now, i can only rely on C&G once a year for that .... until some carrier decide it's fine to deliver shells from Edinburgh to Birmingham.... BTW: Merry christmas everyone 7 sleeps to go before santa comes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenholland Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 don't forget lad's if you need anything , clay and game will be at the shooting show in feb if you can make it save on your delivery charges just a thought . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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