JONO Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Dear lads (and lasses), I'm looking to buy some carts and don't know enough to make an informed choice - can you help? I'm after "general" loads of 30g 6s and possibly 32g 7s. My only criteria being the following: Essential - That they have a felt or biodegradable wad, reliability and are as "reasonably priced" as possible (?). Desirable - I'd avoid like to avoid lead shot, if possible, but I don't know what "cheap" alternatives there are which won't damage my barrels (but I'm "happy" to compromise on this aspect). What manufacturers make such carts that you'd be happy to recommend and, more importantly roughly what should I be looking to pay on about 500-1000 carts? Thanks in advance Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubshot Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Prices , usually best when buying around a 1,000. And with good pigeon Shooting , most shooters take a couple of outers ( 250 ) with them, nothing worse than runing out on a good day. Supplier and choice depends where abouts you are in the Country , No County etc in your Profile. As certian parts have dealers that can do good deals and others do not have such good dealers Good All round is Game Bore Clear Winner Pigeon Come in 6's & Fibre and in 32 Gram There is not a lot of Mark up in Cartridges , so suppliers are limited these days. BOB/R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Steel will damage your barrels if you dont use a plastic cup wad, however you want to use fiber. You could use bismuth and fiber, but bismuth has poor penetration and is ludicus money, so this rules out bismuth. For value for money, and biodegradeable wadding, it would have to be lead and fiber. I like Hull cartarages personally. Currently I am shooting old (very old) Champion carts, and Selliot and Beollck (or something like that) They are some old nastys that are too big to go through my dad's nice old s/s's but will go through my berretta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 For wood pigeon I use Eley Hawk Best, they are 6.1/2 shot & 32 gram, I only buy felt wad so I have no problems where ever I shoot. Sorry cant tell you how much they cost, but they are pigeon load, which usually indicates an economy price. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Steel must not be used in a gun with 2 1/2" chambers or not proofed for steel (most sbs game guns) or it is dangerous. Tungsten matrix or Bismuth are the best non-toxic (but approx £15 for 25) Lead isn't a problem on dry land. As the law stands, you can only shoot wildfowl with non-toxic (even over dry land), but you can shoot game and pests with lead over water. (Why they didn't make it Lead on land and non-toxic over water (which would have made more sense) I have no idea!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JONO Posted February 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 Thanks to all so far. Clubshot - I'm in the South West, Bristol to be exact. Jono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubshot Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 Thanks to all so far. Clubshot - I'm in the South West, Bristol to be exact. Jono Worth checking out the likes of Litt's , they are a large Shooting Suppliers and normally do good prices. www.litts.co.uk I have visited them in the past , worth checking out the Likes of Sporting Gun etc. for other local Dealers. Some times Game Delaers also sell cartridges @ good prices. BOB/R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 As the law stands, you can only shoot wildfowl with non-toxic (even over dry land), but you can shoot game and pests with lead over water. (Why they didn't make it Lead on land and non-toxic over water (which would have made more sense) I have no idea!!) Logistics I would imagine, it'd be much easier to prove that a duck was shot with lead than to prove the duck was shot "over" water, what distance from water would you set as a standard for "over water", it'd make the law undoubtably more complex. From a policing point of view I think that is the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 As the law stands, you can only shoot wildfowl with non-toxic (even over dry land), but you can shoot game and pests with lead over water. (Why they didn't make it Lead on land and non-toxic over water (which would have made more sense) I have no idea!!) The Reason being that the volume of lead used by traditional wild fowlers (Which was generally discharged close to or in the margins) was in serious risk of being ingested by feeding birds, particularly wildfowl. The amount of game shot annually over water is minimal but the amount of wildfowl shot over land which technically could be over water ( Tidal marshes margins etc) would be significant. You will all recall the lead shot ban of the 80,s in the Angling community brought about for precisely the same reason. It always stuck in my craw that since wildfowling with large lead loads began in the 18th century more shot was distributed into the waterways than could ever be lost by anglers using rod and line. Birds cannot rid themselves of lead it builds up in the system leading to an eventual slow and painful demise. I am confident that, like it or not there will, one day, be a total ban on lead shot for cartridges as sure as an alterntive fuel to oil will need to be found. The onus for this is with the cartridge manufacturers or the gun makers to provide barrels suitable for steel alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 But this means, those amoungst us who own classic guns which cant take steel are ******** really. I don't think bismuth is the answer really, it is just to soft. Perhapse more antimony can be added? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Perhapse more antimony can be added? Red... Im familiar with Alimony but not antimony... :unsure: FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Antimony - Symbol - Sb RAM - 122 Atomic No. - 51 Good job I just went into town and bought some eggs :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Ah, So its in the same periodic range 5 between Tellurium and Tin then Red... Oh sorry I forgot to tell you Ive got a grade A in Chemistry A level :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Then you should know that it is used in small percenteges (less than bout 25%) to hardern metals, such as lead :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NGhost Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Actually Bismuth is hard. It has to be sofened wit tin(3%)to stop it from being brittle, as pure bismuth tends to powder when used in a gun. Lead hardness is 1.5 Mohs (soft) Bismuth hardness is 2.5 mohs (harder) Steel (soft Iron) 4.5 mohs PS I have got a Grade A in A level chemistry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 :unsure: Us three are so bloody Clever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flightline Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 As we`re all doing it, I`d like to announce that I have a Grade A in Chemistry A Level too. 1966 it was, a very good year but possibly before some of these rarer metals had been discovered. We were mainly interested in the Philosopher`s Stone and Phlogiston, I seem to recall... :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Pieman Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Flightline, I thought Phlogiston was a village near Padstow? :yp: :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flightline Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Flightline,I thought Phlogiston was a village near Padstow? :yp: :unsure: Only up to a Point, Stepper. YP, your joke has passed me by, or went Splatt! In fact, it`s missed the Pentire Point (see an atlas or Multimap). These A level lads will enlighten (oooh!) us all on early combustion theories, I`m sure, unless the whole syllabus has been dumbed down since I was writing on slate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Flightline,I thought Phlogiston was a village near Padstow? :yp: :yp: :unsure: Only up to a Point, Stepper. YP, your joke has passed me by, or went Splatt! In fact, it`s missed the Pentire Point (see an atlas or Multimap). These A level lads will enlighten (oooh!) us all on early combustion theories, I`m sure, unless the whole syllabus has been dumbed down since I was writing on slate. Obviously Flightline they have started on the adult population, because the irony of the situation is that 'dumming down' used to be called 'de-intelectualisation' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Sorry lads, no A levels at all; but I do have a degree in mechanical and production engineering. If you want to shoot steel (soft iron), or Tungsten matrix through your gun; get a gun with hard chromed barrells. I worked in the glass industry for many years and witnessed the abrasive action of molten glass on steel and cast iron. The application of hard chrome plating revolutionised the moulding of glass. Its for that reason that you will frequently see me praising the virtues of Beretta. As far as I know all recent Beretta gun have hard chromed barrells. I know that cartridge manufacturers make a fuss about their fancy plastic sabot that is supposed to protect the barrell, but I feel that that is only half the answer. What happened to fibre wads and all that? Does anyone know how long these photodegradable wads take to break down, and to what do they break down? webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Dont Baikels have chromed barrels? Webber, does this mean I can put steel down my new siver pigeon? Fiber wads are still about, thats all I shoot with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Red The only thing that I know about Baikals is that they kick like a mule, and that I wouldnt want to own one. I dont know if they have chromed barells or not; but dont confuse the words cromo, or chromium-molybdenum steel for meaning that the barells are chromed. These words refer to the type of steel that the barrells are made from; not that they have been hard chrome plated inside. Provided that the gun is chambered and correctly pressure rated, I would see no reason why you should not. You should however follow the guidelines with regard to choke, which I think is half maximum, but I may be wrong. I suggest that you consult the user manual that came with the gun, if thats not available consult your friendly gun smith. Better to ask questions than to make a megga clanger. I seriously doubt that the majority of the arsenal that you have previously listed is suitable for steel. I prefer Tungsten matrix, its allegedly got the same density as lead, and I have had acceptable results with it. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Pudding Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Flightline,I thought Phlogiston was a village near Padstow? :unsure: :yp: Only up to a Point, Stepper. YP, your joke has passed me by, or went Splatt! In fact, it`s missed the Pentire Point (see an atlas or Multimap). These A level lads will enlighten (oooh!) us all on early combustion theories, I`m sure, unless the whole syllabus has been dumbed down since I was writing on slate. EH Get some new reading glasses flightline :yp: all the best yis yp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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