Italy

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

Italy cant leave the EU no matter how much they may want to. They are caught like a fly in a spider's web.

Italy, ( like Spain and Greece), is in too deep financially to be able to walk away, not a position Britain wants to ever find itself in.

Italy, Spain and Greece are being deliberately starved to death by the EU. Why? who knows? maybe they plan to take them over or maybe its just because they can.

When we see how the EU treats these countries with such utter contempt, the Remainers should take note, but they won't.  

There comes a point where you have to differentiate between (for example) Italy, the people, and Italy, the government.
You say they cant leave, and I understand your rationale, but who exactly owes the money thats stopping them from leaving ?

If the people (the electorate) say they want out the EU, who are the government to say they cant, because they (the government)  have borrowed so much off European banks ?
I know my view is overly simplistic, but when it becomes apparent that they will never be able to get back on top of the debt, a different course of action must be taken.
Italys people have overwhelmingly voted for that different course.
What it will be is not known as yet, but it must surely involve coming out of the euro and eventually the EU.
As with Greece, the EU has been a disaster for them, whichever way you want to look at it, it was never going to get any better the way things were going.
Good luck to them.

[TriBsa]

14 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

There comes a point where you have to differentiate between (for example) Italy, the people, and Italy, the government.
You say they cant leave, and I understand your rationale, but who exactly owes the money thats stopping them from leaving ?

If the people (the electorate) say they want out the EU, who are the government to say they cant, because they (the government)  have borrowed so much off European banks ?
I know my view is overly simplistic, but when it becomes apparent that they will never be able to get back on top of the debt, a different course of action must be taken.
Italys people have overwhelmingly voted for that different course.
What it will be is not known as yet, but it must surely involve coming out of the euro and eventually the EU.
As with Greece, the EU has been a disaster for them, whichever way you want to look at it, it was never going to get any better the way things were going.
Good luck to them.

Unfortunately Italy leaving the Euro would not work. Yes the new Lira would be "priced" more competitively to encourage Italian exports but it would be discounted against the Euro so effectively Italy would have to pay even more on it's loans. Short of writing them off, Italy has few options. The Euro is effectively inflated on the back of the German economy to the detriment of most Eurozone members. The best option would be for Germany to ditch the Euro and return to the Deutsche Mark or for the other Eurozone members to kick Germany out. 

Edited March 6, 2018 by TriBsa

[RockySpears]

55 minutes ago, TriBsa said:

Italy would have to pay even more on it's loans

  But as a sovereign nation it could print its way out.  Everyone else does.

  Whatever Lira amount was needed could be printed and the debt disappear.  This is exactly what the bank of England and the Federal reserve have been doing.

  The dollar and pound have been printed into existence.  How else can America owe $21 trillion if the dollars had not been printed?  If you owe them, you spent them somewhere, and that meant the money must have entered circulation, even if only in digital form.  Of course, printing money has consequences, but as yet, neither the UK or America has seen the consequences of their printing, inflation.

  This article has a good view of what would happen it the Italians managed NOT to go with Berlusconi in any way, shape or form:  https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-05/debt-crisis-dead-ahead-italys-results-are-truly-forza-italia

 

RS

[Vince Green]

58 minutes ago, RockySpears said:

  But as a sovereign nation it could print its way out.  Everyone else does.

  Whatever Lira amount was needed could be printed and the debt disappear.  This is exactly what the bank of England and the Federal reserve have been doing.

  The dollar and pound have been printed into existence.  How else can America owe $21 trillion if the dollars had not been printed?  If you owe them, you spent them somewhere, and that meant the money must have entered circulation, even if only in digital form.  Of course, printing money has consequences, but as yet, neither the UK or America has seen the consequences of their printing, inflation.

  This article has a good view of what would happen it the Italians managed NOT to go with Berlusconi in any way, shape or form:  https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-05/debt-crisis-dead-ahead-italys-results-are-truly-forza-italia

 

RS

Part of America's debt was because, since the last war, dozens of countries, and individuals, hoarded paper dollars as their reserve currency. The Federal Reserve thought that was never going to change but it did. Once the currency came out of the vaults around the world the US had to effectively buy it back.  

Its a bit like you writing cheques for everything you bought and none of them getting cashed, then one day they all start going through in a rush.

The same thing is now happening with the Euro, it replaced the dollar as the favoured hoarding currency but if it starts going down it will get dumped 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Vince Green

[Walker570]

Whatever, the writing is on the wall and no doubt there are a few backsides going half crown sixpence this morning !!

Their goose that has been laying so many golden eggs is about to get roasted.

[Vince Green]

9 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

no doubt there are a few backsides going half crown sixpence this morning !!

 

You know what? I don't think they are. They should be, most definitely they should be, but such is their level of arrogance they feel untouchable

[pinfireman]

The best effect this will have is to encourage all those across Europe, who are Euro-sceptic, to fight harder to Leave. The cracks are appearing, and Brussels will only be able to paper over them for a short while. Should the Right in Germany break Merkels grip on power, then Germany will cease to underwrite the Euro...and the whole deck of cards will come tumbling down!  Brexit was just the first step, but it gave encouragement to others of a like mind across Europe. It probably just needs another  million North African "refugees" ? to arrive en masse, and it,s bye bye EU !