Shotkam Group Buy?

[slaphead]

Guys, I have been speaking to Emily at Shotkam because I want one of these but the price tag is somewhat on the high side. That said, I do think it could be worth the punt.

You can get a $50 discount code to use on their website for a single item but better discounts are available. If we can get orders together for 4 units we can get a $500 discount from the total. Yes, there will still be import duty and VAT but its like $125 per unit less which makes them roughly just under the price of what they're selling for second hand at the moment on eBay for the 2018 model!!

Id have one of them which would leave 3 units available. Would anyone else want to jump in on the deal? For those that think its just a cam to video what you shoot, its a learning tool so that you can correct your lead etc..

I dont know how we would work it financially though because trust is a major issue but the chance is there to save a chunk of cash if you were considering one of these.

Edited April 4, 2018 by slaphead

[Rupert]

I had one, they are a high quality item  and it served its purpose for us, i did rent it out a few times. My main point is i got all bar a fiver back when i sold.

[slaphead]

1 minute ago, Rupert said:

I had one, they are a high quality item  and it served its purpose for us, i did rent it out a few times. My main point is i got all bar a fiver back when i sold.

Indeed. Once you've finished with it you can sell it easily for hardly a loss especially if you're paying second hand money for it in the first place.

[ADT06]

What price per unit total including import duty would it roughly be? 

[slaphead]

43 minutes ago, ADT06 said:

What price per unit total including import duty would it roughly be? 

If I can get a free delivery then that'll bring the cost down by $125 each unit to $570 USD then convert that to £ and add duty at probably around 4% and then add VAT so... Probably, all going well, a landed cost of about £505 but best thing to do is to share all paperwork and split the actual landed cost by 4 to make it fair for everyone. All depends on what happens to currency rates when the order is paid for too.

Edited April 4, 2018 by slaphead
reworded

[grrclark]

Without wishing to be disruptive, the shotkam in itself is not the wonder cure that some may think it is.

All it can show you is the lead at the time the gun is fired, so yes you will see if you have missed behind, but will you know why you are behind?

will you always be behind that type of target consistently and if so why?

Lead in itself is only a little part of the outcome.  It is a function of gun speed, the technique you use in trying to shoot the target, how you perceive lead as you see it (not the camera), your posture and stance, and a chunk more.

It is a serious amount of money to splash out so be sure it is answering the questions that you need to answer.

Of course of you want it anyway then more power to your elbow, but don’t think it is a wonder solution because it allows you to see where you missed.  Why you missed is more important.

[Guest stevo]

50 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Without wishing to be disruptive, the shotkam in itself is not the wonder cure that some may think it is.

All it can show you is the lead at the time the gun is fired, so yes you will see if you have missed behind, but will you know why you are behind?

will you always be behind that type of target consistently and if so why?

Lead in itself is only a little part of the outcome.  It is a function of gun speed, the technique you use in trying to shoot the target, how you perceive lead as you see it (not the camera), your posture and stance, and a chunk more.

It is a serious amount of money to splash out so be sure it is answering the questions that you need to answer.

Of course of you want it anyway then more power to your elbow, but don’t think it is a wonder solution because it allows you to see where you missed.  Why you missed is more important.

To add to your comments, don’t forget when your watching your play back your notice it’s not a true perspective of your shot , there quite a lot of magnification/zoom on the recording , so if your shooting against a pain background ( sky ) for arguments sake you have absolutely no idea what your lead was , let alone the distance of your shot , 

Edited April 4, 2018 by stevo

[motty]

12 minutes ago, stevo said:

To add to your comments, don’t forget when your watching your play back your notice it’s not a true perspective of your shot , there quite a lot of magnification/zoom on the recording , so if your shooting against a pain background ( sky ) for arguments sake you have absolutely no idea what your lead was , let alone the distance of your shot , 

Can only agree with these and grr's comments. They look a good big of kit, but limited in  potential instructional value.

[DanBettin]

Off the back of the above comments, maybe consider aimcam pro 2, it's the new model. It's half the price, and it gives the full sight picture (ish - camera's a touch higher than line of sight). Now if you want to talk about group discounts on the new aimcam I'm all ears.

Edited April 4, 2018 by DanBettin

[slaphead]

grrclark, motty, stevo, are you speaking from experience having used one or ??

The benefit as far as I can see it is that:

1. You take the shot knowing how much lead you gave it

2. You watch the replay and can see the pellets in flight

3. You see how much you missed it by and where

4. You adjust your next shot by the given amount that you missed the last one by and break the target. You have then learned where your shot placement should be at that particular time.

The reticle on the cam is aligned with the bead on the gun.

Ive been on stands at hodnet wmsg that I could have wasted boxes of carts on and not known where I was going wrong. This would have got me hitting that particular target a lot sooner.

[Guest stevo]

3 minutes ago, slaphead said:

grrclark, motty, stevo, are you speaking from experience having used one or ??

The benefit as far as I can see it is that:

1. You take the shot knowing how much lead you gave it

2. You watch the replay and can see the pellets in flight

3. You see how much you missed it by and where

4. You adjust your next shot by the given amount that you missed the last one by and break the target. You have then learned where your shot placement should be at that particular time.

The reticle on the cam is aligned with the bead on the gun.

Ive been on stands at hodnet wmsg that I could have wasted boxes of carts on and not known where I was going wrong. This would have got me hitting that particular target a lot sooner.

Mucker , you go and buy one . I hope it helps you out and I wish you and anyone else who gets one the very best . ?

[motty]

10 hours ago, slaphead said:

grrclark, motty, stevo, are you speaking from experience having used one or ??

The benefit as far as I can see it is that:

1. You take the shot knowing how much lead you gave it

2. You watch the replay and can see the pellets in flight

3. You see how much you missed it by and where

4. You adjust your next shot by the given amount that you missed the last one by and break the target. You have then learned where your shot placement should be at that particular time.

The reticle on the cam is aligned with the bead on the gun.

Ive been on stands at hodnet wmsg that I could have wasted boxes of carts on and not known where I was going wrong. This would have got me hitting that particular target a lot sooner.

I think you could end up very confused. Imagine you use the device to help get your correct lead. Provided you have the consistency, you manage to kill 10/10 on a medium range crosser. The next week you encounter the same target. You give the same lead as the week before and hit 0/10. You don't understand it! It is then that your mate tells you that he thinks that this weeks crosser is slightly faster, slightly further away, and at a slightly different angle to last weeks crosser.

Getting the right sight picture on all of the countless target presentations with the use of a camera is a very difficult task. I think more practice would be more beneficial.

[DanBettin]

I came very close to buying one, but the FoV, zoom, position and default playback speed means you don't get the full picture (literally). It's perfect (arguably unbeatable) as a piece of tech that can show you where the pattern went, the way it uses recoil for trimming the video and fits snug on the barrel with minimal weight added is perfect, but there's no context to the shot - in my opinion.

I'm tempted to buy the aimcam pro 2, but I only want it as a last resort. I want to be able to correct my approach without a camera, ideally.

[Newbie to this]

I wouldn't mind an aimcam pro 2, even if only to record my shooting. The package deals aren't too expensive. Just wondering would a go pro be a better way.

Edit - go pro, just for recording shooting not as an aid.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Newbie to this

[DanBettin]

38 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I wouldn't mind an aimcam pro 2, even if only to record my shooting. The package deals aren't too expensive. Just wondering would a go pro be a better way.

Edit - go pro, just for recording shooting not as an aid.

I think one downfall I've seen mentioned a few times on PW is the battery life of the aimcam, not sure if that's improved with the new models but might be worth buying the powerbank with it too. It's a shame all of these devices cost this much, I'm fairly certain a camera of that quality can't be expensive, and mounting them on the glasses can't be a big job either.

[Newbie to this]

16 minutes ago, DanBettin said:

I think one downfall I've seen mentioned a few times on PW is the battery life of the aimcam, not sure if that's improved with the new models but might be worth buying the powerbank with it too. It's a shame all of these devices cost this much, I'm fairly certain a camera of that quality can't be expensive, and mounting them on the glasses can't be a big job either.

The package deals come with the powerbank, cord and memory card

[DanBettin]

Just now, Newbie to this said:

The package deals come with the powerbank, cord and memory card

Yep. For around £250 I believe. I'm going to sleep on it, might pick myself one up. 

[grrclark]

On 04/04/2018 at 23:20, slaphead said:

grrclark, motty, stevo, are you speaking from experience having used one or ??

The benefit as far as I can see it is that:

1. You take the shot knowing how much lead you gave it

2. You watch the replay and can see the pellets in flight

3. You see how much you missed it by and where

4. You adjust your next shot by the given amount that you missed the last one by and break the target. You have then learned where your shot placement should be at that particular time.

The reticle on the cam is aligned with the bead on the gun.

Ive been on stands at hodnet wmsg that I could have wasted boxes of carts on and not known where I was going wrong. This would have got me hitting that particular target a lot sooner.

Apologies for the late reply.

What you describe is indeed the advantage of the camera, at least at face value, but as Motty described there are loads of other things to consider.

As per Stevo's comments if you think it will help you and you can afford it then fill your boots, I sincerely hope that it brings the benefit that you are hoping for.

Perhaps before you splash out a big wedge on the camera drop Pete Harris @Salopian a message on here and book a lesson with him at Hodent where he is a coach.  Pete will get you hitting that troublesome crosser and more importantly he will be able to tell you how to read the target so you can hit it consistently through solid technique.

[Salopian]

Thank you for the Coaching endorsement.

It should be pointed out that in line with CPSA General Rules , GUNS  rule 2.30 it is not permitted to use a gun fitted with a device that has magnifying, light emitting, or any device that gives visual enhancement of the target , so be careful before you buy devices like shotkam or the new Easy hit device ( Red Dot), obviously you can use for your own entertainment on none registered shoots . Buyer beware !

[Redm0002]

I have an AimCam and it is a good piece of kit. But a big point is that it is a fixed focus, point of view camera. If the clays are at distance, perhaps against a background (not clear sky), then you often don't get a viewable picture of the clays' flight and the breaking or missing of the clays. You also have to watch the whole footage from when you start to record to when you stop it. The ShotKam gives a closer and clearer view of the flight of the clays, the pellets and the breakages or misses, all in shot sized bites. The wifi option also allows each shot to be analysed and adjustments to be made for the next shot, all information that can help to build consistency in judging speed, lead and breaking clays or hitting game. I use my AimCam for fishing, it has produced some excellent footage of fly fishing for trout and fishing for catfish.