Air Arms S510 TDR Anyone?

[atyl1972]

4 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

In a pcp .you aim and pull the trigger .the small spring pushes  the hammer forward(slight recoil )  and the air is released further pushing( recoil) the gun backwards .the pellet then exits the sight picture stays the same .the end .

In a springer. 

You aim. pull the trigger .the the huge spring pushes the heavy piston forward the gun recoils backwards the barrel goes upwards . The pellet starts to move .the piston bounces off the cushion of  air sendingvthe gun forwards (surge ) . (Barrel twists and drops ) then then the pellet exits .Your site picture has now changed. 

How  and where you hold the gun during all this bouncing around depends on where the muzzle is pointing when the pellets exits it .

Keep the hold consistent and it should be the same place each time 

 

I just find shooting with a magazine is easier and simpler but I also like cocking a springer and the whole loading idea is great but for me gets tedious very quickly. But agree totally on shot count, I don't half go through some pellets and that's only shooting a members gun with me being respectful. 

[Ultrastu]

Factors to consider for good accuracy :- 

Trigger control (the ability to squeeze the trigger consistently and not pull the gun off aim )

Eye relief - .the ability to place the eye in the same position behind the scope consistently for different shooting positions time and again .

Follow through -.the ability to hold the gun on aim through  the entire shot cycle .

Stock hold .- the ability to hold the stock with the same pressure and place  in the hands and shoulder  consistently. 

Breathing control - .the ability to calm the breathing and release the shot at the same point during the normal beathing cycle .

 

There are more i could go on but im getting bored now .

Point is these all relate to pcps and springers .its just your punished more for getting them wrong with a springer .

 

[Ultrastu]

4 minutes ago, old'un said:

I was always told that the pellet as left the muzzle before the ram hits the breach?

The piston doesnt hit the breech (or transfer port end of the compression chamber) at all .

Or rather it doesnt on the first stroke of the piston .it bounces off the the air cushion its just compressed .then it may bounce a second time slightly on the second compression of air .before finally coming to rest against the breech  /tp .end .

When the pellet exits depends on many factors .not least weight of the pellet and the friction it has in the barrel .

I hard, tight ,heavy pellet (bis mag ) will definatly exit the (long barrel ?)  During the surge phase  ( when the piston is going backwards and the gun now forwards and barrel downwards ) But  a lighter softer not tight pellet (falcon acc plus ) should exit during the first recoil phase (short barrel ) 

Often leading to better accuracy from these pellets as the gun has basically jumped around less .

 

I virtually always shoot falcons from my springers. 

Slight revision .

A piston can slam into the tp end.IF  the transfer port is so wide as to allow all the air out and not be compressed .

This would obviously lead to a bery slow pellet and a knackered gun in 3 shots .

Start with a pcp .enjoy it .

Then when you want a challenge or want to get better .and be a great shooter .Buy  a hw or a bsa or an airarms sringer (not gas ram ) 

And be the master of your craft .

[quentyn]

my 2p 

 

unless you NEED the TDR functionality i wouldnt bother. i had a 410 TDR and i eventually sold it and bought a standard s410. I thought it would be really cool to have a gun that took apart but in the end it became a hassle to take out of its bag and then re assemble to out in the safe. The 410 and 510 ( i own both) are really superb guns but unless you need to be able to take the gun down i would get a standard ( and of the 2 i would get a  510 as the side lever is faster)

 

Q

[atyl1972]

6 minutes ago, quentyn said:

my 2p 

 

unless you NEED the TDR functionality i wouldnt bother. i had a 410 TDR and i eventually sold it and bought a standard s410. I thought it would be really cool to have a gun that took apart but in the end it became a hassle to take out of its bag and then re assemble to out in the safe. The 410 and 510 ( i own both) are really superb guns but unless you need to be able to take the gun down i would get a standard ( and of the 2 i would get a  510 as the side lever is faster)

 

Q

That's actually a really good shout, but it is a lot lighter, shorter than most other pcp's for when I get to use it around a farm, carrying it around for a few hours too, but again the shot count is pretty low but as an hunting rifle this should be plenty, and of course as you've said, the ability to "together" the rifle before you shoot is a cool idea, even if it is a novelty.

25 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

The piston doesnt hit the breech (or transfer port end of the compression chamber) at all .

Or rather it doesnt on the first stroke of the piston .it bounces off the the air cushion its just compressed .then it may bounce a second time slightly on the second compression of air .before finally coming to rest against the breech  /tp .end .

When the pellet exits depends on many factors .not least weight of the pellet and the friction it has in the barrel .

I hard, tight ,heavy pellet (bis mag ) will definatly exit the (long barrel ?)  During the surge phase  ( when the piston is going backwards and the gun now forwards and barrel downwards ) But  a lighter softer not tight pellet (falcon acc plus ) should exit during the first recoil phase (short barrel ) 

Often leading to better accuracy from these pellets as the gun has basically jumped around less .

 

I virtually always shoot falcons from my springers. 

Slight revision .

A piston can slam into the tp end.IF  the transfer port is so wide as to allow all the air out and not be compressed .

This would obviously lead to a bery slow pellet and a knackered gun in 3 shots .

Start with a pcp .enjoy it .

Then when you want a challenge or want to get better .and be a great shooter .Buy  a hw or a bsa or an airarms sringer (not gas ram ) 

And be the master of your craft .

I was just gonna say that, start with a pcp then challenge myself with a springer and see where I'm at..

[Snoozer]

I honestly can't see the attraction with Springer's

Had 2 when i was 16 40 odd years ago, I now own a new HW100S and why oh why would i ever go back !

If i wanted another Pellet Gun it would always be another PCP,  About the closest i get to a Springer is slotting in my single shot adapter.

[winnie&bezza]

20 minutes ago, Snoozer said:

I honestly can't see the attraction with Springer's

Had 2 when i was 16 40 odd years ago, I now own a new HW100S and why oh why would i ever go back !

If i wanted another Pellet Gun it would always be another PCP,  About the closest i get to a Springer is slotting in my single shot adapter.

Mainly nostalgia, the love of going back to basics and testing yourself I suppose. I’ve got a r10 and a s400 but Ive got a hankering for a 97k for the thrill. Don’t own a springer and only ever a had Webley xocet.

[Ultrastu]

I like my springers for there simplicity .i set my springers to be totally self contained. So each gun has a stock pouch full of the pellets it likes best .that way its just grab and go .no prep required. 

This happened at the weekend i wanted to take an airgun with my shotty out for the morning .looking at all my pcps and thinking .ummm this one needs filling ,.that ones silencer is up stairs .this ones ive run out of pellets for ..

Where is the mag for that one .? 

Oh never mind i just grabbed the bsa lightening and a bag and i walked out the door .

 

 

Maybe i have too many ? 

 

Naaaah 

[hambone]

I use both and while I accept that PCP is more accurate I just prefer using springer's, don't know why. Maybe some black powder shotgunners or muzzle loaders might want to chip in with an opinion as to why they use outdated systems or methods and enjoy doing so? 

[Ultrastu]

Why ride a bike instead of driving ? 

Because its fun 

I shoot for fun .if i shot for work i wouldnt use an airgun probably .especially for rabbits .id use a .17 hmr .far more effective .but its not always about being the most efficient  .

[timmytree]

Just now, hambone said:

I use both and while I accept that PCP is more accurate I just prefer using springer's, don't know why. Maybe some black powder shotgunners or muzzle loaders might want to chip in with an opinion as to why they use outdated systems or methods and enjoy doing so? 

I have a Prosport, also had an S200 for a few years but honestly the S200 was no more accurate, easier yes but the PS was far better in one respect. No shot count!

Decoying pigeons, static shooting rabbits, brancher rooks, just better because there was no limit. No Quarry? unlimited plinking session. S200 has gone, the PS does everything I need, as long as I do my bit properly it will do all I ask. It just takes a bit more input from me.

[winnie&bezza]

The only downside I see really to a sprinter is the noise and movement when cocking compared to cycling a multi shot pcp. 

[Guest]

I think Ultra answered for me. If you only shoot pcp you will develop bad habits. I would also like to point out that if you ever move up to rimfire then being good with a springer will serve you better than a pcp.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, winnie&bezza said:

The only downside I see really to a sprinter is the noise and movement when cocking compared to cycling a multi shot pcp. 

I have cleared a rabbit warren from 25 yds with my 95k. True it was a bit comical reloading whilst lying in the grass and trying not to be seen or heard. These days I use it to improve my kneeling and standing shots, which has improved my rimfire.

[Snoozer]

9 hours ago, DC177 said:

I think Ultra answered for me. If you only shoot pcp you will develop bad habits. I would also like to point out that if you ever move up to rimfire then being good with a springer will serve you better than a pcp.

Please elaborate

[Ultrastu]

I think its easier to learn bad habbits with a pcp and still hit the target .

Bad habits with a springer and you hit nothing. 

[Guest]

This exactly. You see all kinds of weird grips and holds on the range by the pcp-only boys. It's why I make my son use a springer to develop good grip, posture, alignment, breathing and trigger control. Once that is engrained he will be able to shoot any rifle.