Master Eye issues and remedies - both eyes open

[Adrian Foster]

I have not tried the SP device (for reasons obvious below) but I suspect it relies upon the user concentrating on the "device" to switch the brain away from the dominant eye.

I think its success will be down to the difference between the eyes - it is much less likely to work if there is a significant difference in the eyes (when corrected by glasses etc) and vice versa.

I started shooting many years ago. I was 18 years old and went on a a weeks course (at Loughborough Uni Summer School run by - if I remember correctly - a guy called Dave Goss who had a shop near Sutton in Ashfield). My left eye was better than my right so I learnt to shoot left handed form the start. about 25 years ago I suffered a head injury which impacted on my left eye which now needs a prism lens to correct it. They are now quite closely matched and occasionally I have issues. When I started shooting seriously 7 years ago things were not so straightforward.

I say all of this to make two points,

My eyes are now relatively close but I do find it easy to force my left eye to dominate and I have (long distance) contacts lenses for my left eye (only) which assist this greatly.

being right handed I see an advantage in shooting left handed with a left master eye. My right (dominant & stronger) hand is pointing the gun with greater control than my left would.

In summary I would probably recommend new shooter to shoot left handed - particularly if young.

 

[Salopian]

Adrian ,

 I think you got a little confused in your write up .

Shoot of your dominant side if it is possible , using both eyes open and your periipheral vision. 

If you cannot shoot off your dominant eye side ( for various reasons ) then the SP device , if fitted correctly will be of enormous benefit , far greater than 'blinder' devices .

Dangerzone ,

To answer your comment.

There are many aids available to correct eye issues and dominance issues , so find one that suits the individual , but don't dismiss any unless you have given them a fair trial

[Adrian Foster]

"I think you got a little confused in your write up " - I'm not sure which bit.

All I wanted to say is that shooting left handed (assuming a right handed person with a left master eye - which is the most common) is not a negative. I think it is too easy to see it as a problem when it is not. All those difficult clays, setup to challenge right handers, are often easier for the lefties !!.

"Shoot off your dominant side if it is possible, using both eyes open and your peripheral vision" - If you mean dominant hand then I don't agree - if you mean dominant eye then I do. Obviously for most they should be the same.

Overall though gun fit, eye issues, and all sorts of things are down to personal issues including preference and comfort. For me, at 18 years old, it was easy shooting left handed. Others may find it much harder - and it does mean I can say if I would be any worse or better had I continued to shoot right handed and learned to work around it !!

[Salopian]

Correct , shoot off your eye dominance side whenever practical and possible.

[Dangerzone]

On 25/04/2019 at 17:59, Hamster said:

What do you call zero V huge success ? 

I have shot with three people who have tried and  had 0 success with SP. I know four people who have trialed/have a n eye D rail fitted, all with massive improvement in their shooting.

[Hamster]

4 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I have shot with three people who have tried and  had 0 success with SP. I know four people who have trialed/have a n eye D rail fitted, all with massive improvement in their shooting.

Thanks. 

Still doesn't explain what you call 0 success, did ALL three miss everything they fired at AFTER fitting the SP, and considering the D rail hasn't even been launched yet it's nothing short of incredible that four people you know to have trialled it noticed MASSIVE improvements, almost kinda sounds like knocking one whilst advertising 😕 the other, can we firmly expect those four to jump up two classes now, I mean that's what I call MASSIVE. 

[CG Impact]

What he means by 0 success is when the SP was fitted the shooters using it made no improvement in there ability, but then you new that already its just a typical argumentative response to belittle someone 

[Hamster]

45 minutes ago, CG Impact said:

What he means by 0 success is when the SP was fitted the shooters using it made no improvement in there ability, but then you new that already its just a typical argumentative response to belittle someone 

Hiya CG 😄  where you been lately, are you related to Dangerzone  or did you just think you'd barge in and try and even things up from the last knowledge spankin' you received ? I don't need your interjection, it's Dangerzone's response and explanation I asked for, yours is (like his) just a cheap shot at something he happens not to like. If for example I turn around and say Perazzi guns are rubbish because I know 3 people who can't shoot theirs to save their lives then I'd fully expect people to question my stance based on such a small sample and with so little substance behind the jibe. 

If you state something like 0 success then I'm afraid you're going to have to articulate what it means, I happen to have read testimonies from people who think it did help them, at least one is of top county level standard, that's not to say the D rail is not going to be excellent, it's just that there seems to be a bit of a detectable "push" to deride and "belittle" other devices other than the as yet un-launched D rail on social media as well as here it seems ! I also want to know what Dangerzone means by MASSIVE improvement as I'm experienced enough to know such a thing is massively unlikely (see what I did there). ☺️  

By all means do engage when you have something useful to say but keep your snide non arguments to yourself. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Hamster

[CG Impact]

27 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Hiya CG 😄  where you been lately, are you related to Dangerzone  or did you just think you'd barge in and try and even things up from the last knowledge spankin' you received ? I don't need your interjection, it's Dangerzone's response and explanation I asked for, yours is (like his) just a cheap shot at something he happens not to like. If for example I turn around and say Perazzi guns are rubbish because I know 3 people who can't shoot theirs to save their lives then I'd fully expect people to question my stance based on such a small sample and with so little substance behind the jibe. 

If you state something like 0 improvement then I'm afraid you're going to have to articulate what it means, I happen to have read testimonies from people who think it did help them, at least one is of top county level standard, that's not to say the D rail is not going to be excellent, it's just that there seems to be a bit of a detectable "push" to deride and "belittle" other devices other than the as yet un-launched D rail on social media as well as here it seems ! I also want to know what Dangerzone means by MASSIVE improvement as I'm experienced enough to know such a thing is massively unlikely (see what I did there). ☺️  

By all means do engage when you have something useful to say but keep your snide non arguments to yourself. 

 

All good thanks, just sitting on the side lines laughing at the hysterical posts you make where you desperately try to make out you know what your talking about. As for the spanking, you really are deluded in every which way imaginable, but you know if it makes you happy in the little world you live in, crack on 

[Hamster]

1 minute ago, CG Impact said:

All good thanks, just sitting on the side lines laughing at the hysterical posts you make where you desperately try to make out you know what your talking about. As for the spanking, you really are deluded in every which way imaginable, but you know if it makes you happy in the little world you live in, crack on 

Well in this particular case at least, it's pretty clear you're speaking from a grudge point of view rather than any actual knowledge or contribution towards the subject matter. I am highly knowledgeable on this subject owing to 35+ years of shooting shotguns off the right shoulder with the "wrong" eye, I have tried most of the gadgets and so can speak from experience when I say no one system, method or gadget can be right for everyone. 

This thread is for people who are interested in the subject or those who can in some way contribute positively. I gave Dangerzone fair grace to explain his statement, he merely repeated what he'd said without explaining or expanding on it. In these situations I tend to reach for the salt jar and my special "file".

It is simply not possible to pass sound judgement on anything unless one gives it a fair old try over hundreds of clays, choosing a gun over another for example should entail several hundred shots perhaps over several weeks so that the gun that offers the best "compromise" can be selected. Using the SP as well as any other gadget would have to be "learned", the same for high glow bead types of things, they're not a "cure" but in the right circumstances (particularly if they're small so they don't stand out too much) can be useful. 

If there's something you believe I've got wrong then point it out and we shall discuss it, failing that we shall know the childish hysterics are in fact coming from your direction. 

[Gordon R]

I have to back Hamster, because he knows his stuff. It isn't "facts" plucked out of thin air.

[CG Impact]

15 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I have to back Hamster, because he knows his stuff. It isn't "facts" plucked out of thin air.

Each to there own Gordan, but I doubt BH would put his name to something if it hadn't been stringently devoloped and tested  before putting it to market 

[Hamster]

38 minutes ago, CG Impact said:

Each to there own Gordan, but I doubt BH would put his name to something if it hadn't been stringently devoloped and tested  before putting it to market 

That doesn't even make any sense, who said Ben would do such a thing, this isn't about that. 

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

I have to back Hamster, because he knows his stuff. It isn't "facts" plucked out of thin air.

Thank you. 

[Hamster]

Just read on FB that a certain gentleman has shot 100 straight at the West Midlands Skeet Championship using an SP. 

[Salopian]

Hamster ,

 Correct , Ian Cunliffe a Cheshire Skeet shooter with a left eye dominance issue , uses the SP and feels it has transformed his shooting for the better.

Gentlemen ,

I think we all need to be a little careful if we promote or rubbish a product .

I have worked with eye issues for years and I think it is fair to say that there is not a product that suits all of us , so it is probably best to try them all if possible until you find one that suits your issue.

To be fair Ben did go online and rubbish the SP device and promote his Eye D Rail  which I don't think is a very professional thing to do , but each to their own .

I find Dangerzones comments very strange and probably without foundation. 

[Hamster]

21 minutes ago, Salopian said:

Hamster ,

 Correct , Ian Cunliffe a Cheshire Skeet shooter with a left eye dominance issue , uses the SP and feels it has transformed his shooting for the better.

Gentlemen ,

I think we all need to be a little careful if we promote or rubbish a product .

I have worked with eye issues for years and I think it is fair to say that there is not a product that suits all of us , so it is probably best to try them all if possible until you find one that suits your issue.

To be fair Ben did go online and rubbish the SP device and promote his Eye D Rail  which I don't think is a very professional thing to do , but each to their own .

I find Dangerzones comments very strange and probably without foundation. 

👍  That's all there is to it and pretty much what I've been saying all along. There used to be 3 main (non gadget) suggestions for combatting master eye issues, I've proved there are 4 (in truth one of the previous 3 was simply never a credible route in any case); the very many types of gadgets on the market have their places too but we mustn't deride something just because we don't happen to know people who use it effectively and most definitely don't knock something just because you don't understand it and can't be bothered to investigate it in enough detail to see its merits and applications. 

Everything needs a period of adjustment, learning and adaptation including my own method. 

[Dangerzone]

On 05/05/2019 at 13:44, Hamster said:

Thanks. 

Still doesn't explain what you call 0 success, did ALL three miss everything they fired at AFTER fitting the SP, and considering the D rail hasn't even been launched yet it's nothing short of incredible that four people you know to have trialled it noticed MASSIVE improvements, almost kinda sounds like knocking one whilst advertising 😕 the other, can we firmly expect those four to jump up two classes now, I mean that's what I call MASSIVE. 

Hamster, did you forget to take your meds?

 

0 success = 0 improvement. It doesn’t work for them.

Huge success = not having to shut an eye on r-l birds. Not getting dominance switching towards the end of a round when his eyes get tiered. Not getting barrel jump when she closes an eye after connecting to the clay with both open (very right eye dominant left shoulder shooter). Scores improving significantly. Not giving peg 4 Skeet high house  what he sees as 1ft lead then low house 5ft lead. 

[Hamster]

18 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

Hamster, did you forget to take your meds?

 

0 success = 0 improvement. It doesn’t work for them.

Huge success = not having to shut an eye on r-l birds. Not getting dominance switching towards the end of a round when his eyes get tiered. Not getting barrel jump when she closes an eye after connecting to the clay with both open (very right eye dominant left shoulder shooter). Scores improving significantly. Not giving peg 4 Skeet high house  what he sees as 1ft lead then low house 5ft lead. 

Not having to shut an eye is hardly huge success, I along with many others in the same boat don't, not getting dominance switch makes sense, not getting barrel jump also makes sense (if you read my essay carefully I've covered this in some detail) - essentially I believe that those who do successfully close an eye just before firing HAVE to nearasdammit be already shooting very nearly the same as what I have trained my eyes/brain to do. 

The Skeet high house/low house sounds very much like they'd previously been compensating for master eye induced "crossfire" which would never work well enough because when the "correct" eye takes over the shot can go significantly over one way or the other so lead is the least of our problems.

See, it wasn't that hard was it, it sounds like you witnessed some people who found the D rail very useful, others you happen to see using the SP didn't.............but as we now know both can be extremely good in the right hands/situations. 

[Dangerzone]

On 05/05/2019 at 15:16, Hamster said:

Hiya CG 😄  where you been lately, are you related to Dangerzone  or did you just think you'd barge in and try and even things up 

*** is that all about Hamster?!?! Never met CG to my knowledge and don’t know who he is...your one weird dude!!! 

[Dangerzone]

On 07/05/2019 at 11:35, Salopian said:

Hamster ,

 Correct , Ian Cunliffe a Cheshire Skeet shooter with a left eye dominance issue , uses the SP and feels it has transformed his shooting for the better.

Gentlemen ,

I think we all need to be a little careful if we promote or rubbish a product .

I have worked with eye issues for years and I think it is fair to say that there is not a product that suits all of us , so it is probably best to try them all if possible until you find one that suits your issue.

I find Dangerzones comments very strange and probably without foundation. 

Ian Cunliffe, the AA Skeet shooter shot 100...at Skeet...WOW...mind blowing...bet he never got close before the SP came along...

 

Why do you find my comments strange? I find it stranger that you are endorsing a piece of plastic glued onto the side of the barrel as a eye dominance solution. Have you or Hamster seen an eye D rail? Have you witnessed people with eye dominance use both the SP and rail? If not, are you qualified to compare them? 

 

[Hamster]

19 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

*** is that all about Hamster?!?! Never met CG to my knowledge and don’t know who he is...your one weird dude!!! 

It's on a need to know basis.

 

11 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

Ian Cunliffe, the AA Skeet shooter shot 100...at Skeet...WOW...mind blowing...bet he never got close before the SP came along...

 

Why do you find my comments strange? I find it stranger that you are endorsing a piece of plastic glued onto the side of the barrel as a eye dominance solution. Have you or Hamster seen an eye D rail? Have you witnessed people with eye dominance use both the SP and rail? If not, are you qualified to compare them? 

 

It's perfectly possible the chap came close or even matched the feat prior to his use of the SP but eye dominance can cause issues throughout a shooters career, not just at the beginning, whatever the facts behind this particular shooter the reality is that he has chosen to use it so there must be some benefit for him. The way you refer to the SP as "a piece of plastic" further enforces the impression that you're rubbishing one whilst advertising the other. What exactly should such gadgets be made from, kryptonite ? It wouldn't make the slightest difference to me what the D rail was made from as long as it adequately serves its purpose. 

I'm not endorsing SP, I am merely careful not to rubbish something I don't have adequate experience of, unlike your two earlier posts that very much came across as abruptly dismissing them (just cos you reckon 3 people had 0 success) as if that constitutes a large enough sample to give meaningful riposte. The reason I (and I wasn't alone) found your comments strange was the manner of its short yet seemingly highly informed nature. 

 

[Westward]

Hey Hammy, do you remember Darkside from the other forum. Is it me or does Dangerzone come across as uncannily like him. IIRC he had persistent issues with you over there.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Westward

[Hamster]

36 minutes ago, Westward said:

Hey Hammy, do you remember Darkside from the other forum. Is it me or does Dangerzone come across as uncannily like him. IIRC he had persistent issues with you over there.

Naah, I had a few civil one to one pm exchanges with Darkside and he was a solid enough fellow, just a tad too eager to jump in with both feet in subjects he wasn't completely at ease with (and couldn't grasp others might be); it's a fact of life that once you put yourself out there and start talking about subjects in detail you're going to get one or two that disagree with some or everything you have to say. I've silently watched, read (and learned from) different opinions/experiences of thousands of people on subjects that interest me, after a while you develop a sixth sense of what to absorb and what's best ignored (not saying Dangerzone is one).

There really shouldn't be anything here that would be cause for enmity, I purposely stated right at the very start that I'm not against any gadgets or methods different to my own. The reason I took exception to CG's hostile tone was because he didn't even attempt to temper it with an ounce's worth of contribution relevant to the subject, he came simply to bark and so I barked back. Dangerzone could have easily avoided the tensions by either making his initial post more detailed/informative or at least provide his later answers sooner.