Bob Crow

[Bagsy]

J@mes, whilst I don't agree with what your union is doing I do respect your point of view and admire you (and others on here) for coming on and giving your side of the story

 

There are some sound posts both for and against big Bob who you have to agree does have the habit of rubbing people up the wrong way.

 

I sometimes understand peoples desire to strike and very often support their motives. I don't however support any public servants holding the very public they serve to ransom to achieve their goal, no matter what the reason. I believe this is bullying a public who have no choice but to use the service provided and who's lives are very often made a misery in the mean time - not to mention the cost to individuals, industry and the tax payers. I also acknowledge the voting rights of Bobs followers but lets face it they find different reasons almost yearly to strike at the drop of a hat - the previous example of the sacked individual was a perfect example - and lets face it, any self respecting person would have sacked him for the same thing.

 

There are ways and means of going about things - stopping me from working or getting home isn't one of them.

[Cranfield]

There are ways and means of going about things - stopping me from working or getting home isn't one of them.

 

Unfortunately, its the quickest way to get their grievances brought to the notice of the public, so it is the best "way and means" they can use.

[Mungler]

I agree with those who have sympathy over protecting pensions. But underground drivers are paid big salaries (say in comparison to people who work their butts off for the NHS, get paid a pittance and are treated like ****) and constantly whinge.

 

I'm a union member, I've been on strike, I've given money to support others on strike. But why the the RMT strike when the other two unions had agreed they had sufficient guarantees? It is because they like throwing their weight around.

 

Listen to the London Underground song by Amateur Transplants - spot on in getting the feeling of most of us who have to travel by tube.

 

http://www.backingblair.co.uk/london_underground/

 

 

 

Keith I thank you for that link.

 

Ace.

[davo]

Because people complain, stand up for their rights and conditions instead of bending over and taking what ever the employer throws at them, that makes them ***** and should mean their wages are cut? :blink:

Wages are in some instances static or being cut nationally, positions being lost to immigrant workers willing to carry out you're duties for half you're wage.

 

Everyone else employed by private companies has to take what it offered so why should employees of these large companies be any different.

 

If I want a pay increase or a bonus I either have to work harder and show myself worthy of being worth the extra or go and find a different job who will pay me more. Why should a train driver be any different?

 

Mine wasn't a comment referring specifically to train drivers it was a generic observation covering all trades and industry, also the proposed strike was in response to PENSION rights not basic salary. Do try to keep up.

 

 

 

My point also refers to all trades and industries I just mentioned train drivers as it was trade in question

 

I am also aware this discussion is about pensions and not wages but you refered to wages in an earlier post and I was discussing that issue. Maybe you need a lie down old chap as you seem confused. B)

 

Doc W,

You really didn't pay attention at school much did you , In the first instance the word wage was taken directly from Dave-G's quote referring to "***** that hold the public to ransom should have their wage cut" it was a "quote" taken from this very thread, not my words.

In the second instance I responded to that "quote" thus, " Wages are in some instances static or being cut nationally", the rest of the content is there for all to see already, I'm just repeating myself for you're benefit because you've obviously missed the train (I mean point) sorry, Freudian slip there.

 

You on the other hand based you're whole response along the lines of " If I want a pay increase or bonus"

What has you're wage structure and increase procedure got to do with people losing years worth of pension contributions?? And instead of just bending over and assuming the position, they've even got the audacity to complain about it, and take action, bloody cheek of it all.

The whole ethos of the industrial action is to do with pensions, not what they earn, or what you think they should earn, or even what you obviously don't earn.

 

Stick in, work harder and show that you're worth the extra money and you could earn 35K as a wage as well.

Most recently train drivers positions have been filled by a myriad of Industry professionals, bank managers, company executives, ex servicemen and many other trades, because of the wages paid, so if you can pass the psychometric testing, pre-employment medicals, interviews, then the initial training, then further training and then you've got bi-annual testing, go for it, its a great job, oh and don't forget the pension, but thats not as good as it was though.

I'm away for that lie down now.

[digger]

Unions are a dinosaur throw back to the 70`s when power hungry wannabes craved attention and glamour despite flying the red flag.

Life isnt fair, paying union subs wont stop that.Name one well known strike that acheived its aim to within even 80%.

Here is your starter for ten - where is Scargill now and how many mines are still open.

[Mungler]

Unions are a dinosaur throw back to the 70`s when power hungry wannabes craved attention and glamour despite flying the red flag.

Life isnt fair, paying union subs wont stop that.Name one well known strike that acheived its aim to within even 80%.

Here is your starter for ten - where is Scargill now and how many mines are still open.

 

 

 

Yep, sport on - the strike will achieve nothing.

 

According to the BBC it's not just about pensions - pensions being a rather emotive subject and a good PR card to play in a strike?

 

Leaving the issue of pensions to one side for a moment, what I really dislike is public-sector-esque employees demanding "guaranteed" anything. In the real world nothing is guaranteed. Who in the real world is immune from redundancy, job cuts, pay cuts, market sector shrinkage and pay rises which either don't happen or fall way below inflation.

 

My own view regarding work is that if anyone feels hard done by in their job then leave. No whinges, no bitching or feeling hard done by and no employment tribunals - just leave.

 

If what has happened to anyone's pensions has been illegal then instead of striking why not take legal action? I reckon the Unions have pockets deep enough and lawyers by the handful.

[lurcherboy]

Unions have, in a rather convoluted way, made all of us safer, treated fairly, protected us from many forms of abuse ( mental and physical) and last but certainly not least, given us the most basic of human rights in the work place.

 

Remember that please.

 

 

 

 

 

LB

[Dr W]

Thanks for the eduation Davo, I did stick in, work hard and prove myself and got the results.

 

The whole issue I had was not about people sticking up for their rights but the way they went about it. They had been given massive assurances from all sides that the pensions were protected (as the whole pension industry is now massively protected anyway), the other 2 unions accepted that but not old ****head Crow he had to get everyone out and cause misery and millions of pounds of loss.

 

It's not even a case of sour grapes as I cycle into work.

 

The unions almost brought this country to it's knees in the 70s and there is no place for them or their ancient ideals in this day and age.

 

In summary (and this is only my opinion) Bob Crow and all others like him should be tied to the tracks, oh but then they'd be fine as there are no damn trains running.

[davo]

Thanks for the eduation Davo, I did stick in, work hard and prove myself and got the results. B)

 

The whole issue I had was not about people sticking up for their rights but the way they went about it. They had been given massive assurances from all sides that the pensions were protected (as the whole pension industry is now massively protected anyway), the other 2 unions accepted that but not old ****head Crow he had to get everyone out and cause misery and millions of pounds of loss.

 

It's not even a case of sour grapes as I cycle into work.

 

The unions almost brought this country to it's knees in the 70s and there is no place for them or their ancient ideals in this day and age.

 

In summary (and this is only my opinion) Bob Crow and all others like him should be tied to the tracks, oh but then they'd be fine as there are no damn trains running.

 

Dr W, please don't take my responses as a personal attack, its all just a bit of banter, merely an exchange of views and counter opinions.

 

It's a bit late shutting the gate after the horse has bolted!!

what about the lost pension rights that were stolen, contributors ain't getting those years back. Current contributors have seen their contributions rise by over 10% to fill the gaping hole left in the pension pot.

 

Agreed that Crow is a ****head him and his union have done nothing to protect ground staff jobs within the rail industry instead choosing to go head to head with freight companies to the point where his union are no longer recognised by certain rail operators, what protection does that afford his membership in the work place? none, yet they still have to pay their monthly dues.

 

Most people in the rail industry in my opinion, pay union fees not to be part of the union or to become embroiled in the political comings and goings of whats should be or shouldn't be allowed but to have legal representation in the event of disciplinary action taking place following any incident or potential breach of contractual working, lateness, sickness etc.

 

Digger,

You have the majority of you're conditions at work now because of those past unions, annual leave, sick pay, maternity leave, disciplinary representation, less working hours, overtime payments....

Go back to the Victorian way of working if you choose, not my idea of an ideal working environment.

we all know Government makes policy in this country not the unions, having said that what a great job their doing of that , but it doesn't mean you can't stand up for you're self or others, And I need no lecture on the pits, 75% of my family where at one time employed in the mines, jobs lost communities devastated, livelihoods lost, associated businesses closed, what a fine thing Thatcher done there :blink: .

Where does 80% of yer coal come from now? Eastern Europe, Russia, how does it get here? shipped in at twice the cost it would take to mine it in this country with British workers, the coal is there lying in the ground, but no, Thatcher chose to crushed the Miners/British industry and would rather import coal, European Trade over the employment of British workers.

[Dr W]

Dr W, please don't take my responses as a personal attack, its all just a bit of banter, merely an exchange of views and counter opinions.

 

None taken mate, everyone is entltled to their opinion and I can see that you've got strong feelings on the subject as do I.

 

Pensions in this country are a shambles and it's only going to get worse, the current bunch dipping their hands in, robbing Peter to pay Paul isn't helping matters. The state pension isn't going to be worth squat in 20-30 years time and the days of final salary pension schemes (as my parents as teachers got) is fast dwindling.

 

I really worry for those who are not putting anything away now for their retirement in personal plans, people are going to find they won't be able to retire as they can't afford to.

 

The best advice is to start putting away something as young as possible that way it's got many years of growth even if it's a small amount to begin with, although this isn't helped with people having to take out huge mortgages and having little spare each month.

 

Basically we're all ****** and we should leave the country now.

[Lurch]

Bob'The reality is' Crow and his Union henchmen are just a bunch of lefty ***** on a communist agenda.

 

Absolutely.

Unions are, in theory, a good thing but they are too often headed by tossers like Crow busy pushing their own agenda and never mind the people they are supposed to represent.