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Hi all, I have recently taken hold of an Artemis M11 as a favour from a friend to be able to get out with the rifle on pest control duties. I would normally take my shotgun but sometimes we fancy a quiet stalk and the shotgun just isn’t an option. However, I can get the rifle to group well but when I refill back to the same pressure 30 shots later the group can be off and it does drop POI pretty quickly. I know it’s not a regulated gun but neither is the Ultra and that seems to do ok. What are my options and is there any owners who do or don’t have the same issues? Yes I know it’s a cheaper gun but I would still expect more performance than I am getting? Any advice would be appreciated as I used to be a Springer owner and could get super accurate with my TX200 HC at 60yds from prone or a bench 10 years ago...

 

anyway, any advice welcomed apart from get a new gun......

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What pressure are you filling to and how many shots do you get from full fill to a noticeable drop in velocity? Do you have a chrony? BTW, The mk1 is regulated and should give 80 shots/fill, the mk2 is double regulated.

Edited by bruno22rf
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Hello, could be any number of faults as bruno said you should get about  80 shots at 200 bar fill in 22, your best giving it a reseal , there's a few strip down guides and a video, or send it to Air rifle tuning at Milton Keynes 

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Cheers guys, I fill it to just under 200bar that way I get maybe 30 shots to group, if I fill to 200bar then maybe the first 5 - 10 are a bit wonky then it settles, probably get 25-30 before it has dropped noticeably. The biggest issue though is when I refill I feel like the zero will have changed because I can’t fill it back to exactly the same pressure - bizarre I know but doesn’t fill me with confidence when taking aim.
 

I have read (and the manual states) that the Mk1 is unregulated and the Mk2 comes regulated as standard. What makes me wonder though is that the Ultra isn’t regulated and I haven’t heard of that having issues although you probably only get 35 usable shots from what I have read. 
 

I haven’t found any strip down guides but I am pretty mechanically sound if I have a manual, I cleaned and polished the internals of all my springers when I used to have them to great effect but I was only concerned with PCP having no experience. 

I don’t expect miracles but want a bit of confidence when shooting that it is me that misses and not the rifle.

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One of the problems with some guns designed for fac power when they are detuned for the UK market .they are done so as cheaply and easily as possible this means that there can be no balance to the guns power curve .ie start low .Rise to a peak  and then fall again as they should. 

I tested an early hatsan at44 that when filled to any pressure u tried .the energy just dropped lower and lower with every shot  .meaning that the usable shot count was very poor .and you had to limit your range significantly  to accommodate the constant  dropping velocities. 

Co2 guns also do this .but then we don't expect huge shot counts and long range shots from them either .

I dont know this smk gun .but I'd bet that the above is what's its suffering from .

And without a load of re engineering it won't be fixed .

Your ultra was designed by experts to shoot at sub 12  with a balanced un regged valve .maximising shot count over a flat as possible curve .the smk wasn't. 

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Thanks @Ultrastu, I don’t have an Ultra (yet) but was thinking of getting one. It’s a shame as I wanted the Artemis for my boy to start using so I guess I will zero in at a closer range and just limit the usable distance. I wasn’t expecting the world with the rifle, I am realistic but really need to have confidence in the tool I’m using otherwise I am always questioning the shot I would want to take. 
 

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Hey wonky shot is it a .22 cal or .177 ? 

If its a .22 try shooting lighter pellets and zeroing around 25 yds zero it at around half way through what you feel is a usable shot count .that way your first 10 shots may land a bit high and you last 10 a bit low but they should all be close enough for a kill shot at reasonable range ..keep your ranges to within 30 yds and you shoot have a usable gun .

For 177  zero at 30 yds and limit it to around 35 yds max range (I'm presuming it does around 11 foot pound energy when filled to 200 bar or so .) 

Cheers 

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According to Big Dan's (dealer) reviews your gun should be regulated, but maybe he got it wrong? Either way I'm willing bet that that gun will out perform an ultra all day long but something is clearly amiss. If you are unsure how to strip/tune a PCP then, rather than blowing your ceiling down, you would be wise to get it serviced, most likely cost you £100 but it will be money well spent. Another possibility is a warranty claim, if it is clearly not working correctly then the person that bought the gun may have a case against the dealer. You could fit a HUMA to it for around £70 I believe?

Edited by bruno22rf
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35 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

According to Big Dan's (dealer) reviews your gun should be regulated, but maybe he got it wrong? Either way I'm willing bet that that gun will out perform an ultra all day long but something is clearly amiss. If you are unsure how to strip/tune a PCP then, rather than blowing your ceiling down, you would be wise to get it serviced, most likely cost you £100 but it will be money well spent. Another possibility is a warranty claim, if it is clearly not working correctly then the person that bought the gun may have a case against the dealer. You could fit a HUMA to it for around £70 I believe?

Thanks Bruno, warranty claim is definitely not an option. I did notice yesterday that the factory moderator doesn’t seem that secure and there seems to have been a few clipped shots at some point. I am out over the field Friday, I hope to fill to 200, run 40 odd shots, refill and go again a few times and see how that goes!!

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2 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

According to Big Dan's (dealer) reviews your gun should be regulated, but maybe he got it wrong? Either way I'm willing bet that that gun will out perform an ultra all day long but something is clearly amiss. If you are unsure how to strip/tune a PCP then, rather than blowing your ceiling down, you would be wise to get it serviced, most likely cost you £100 but it will be money well spent. Another possibility is a warranty claim, if it is clearly not working correctly then the person that bought the gun may have a case against the dealer. You could fit a HUMA to it for around £70 I believe?

Well in that case they must be way better than an air arms s510 .I'm surprised people even still buy air arms when these amazing smk's are so cheap and accurate 

Edited by Ultrastu
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My S510R has not left the cabinet since buying the P15, so maybe you are right stu. I am stunned by how good a sub £400 gun can be, 1.2fps variation over a 10 shot string, show me an ultra that can compete with that, although this was after AirFective had serviced it, not a clue what is was doing before. You have to own/shoot one to realise how good these things are, but I'm glad it's still a fairly unfashionable gun, keeps prices down.

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3 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

My S510R has not left the cabinet since buying the P15, so maybe you are right stu. I am stunned by how good a sub £400 gun can be, 1.2fps variation over a 10 shot string, show me an ultra that can compete with that, although this was after AirFective had serviced it, not a clue what is was doing before. You have to own/shoot one to realise how good these things are, but I'm glad it's still a fairly unfashionable gun, keeps prices down.

Where abouts are AirFective based - I assume you would recommend them? My brother talks about RatWorks tuning so maybe that is the way forward?

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AirFective are in Milton Keynes. Not sure if they could post it back to you without going via an RFD and incur charges, speak to liam and if you decide to use them, you could post it to me, I will take it to AirFective and wait while it's being done, then post it back to you, total postage cost would be under £30 (remove the stock before posting). Have never heard a bad word about RatWorks so if they are close by they may be a better option - it's hard to explain what a difference someone who knows what they are doing can make, I swear my P15 will match my AA S510R since the service/tune.

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15 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

AirFective are in Milton Keynes. Not sure if they could post it back to you without going via an RFD and incur charges, speak to liam and if you decide to use them, you could post it to me, I will take it to AirFective and wait while it's being done, then post it back to you, total postage cost would be under £30 (remove the stock before posting). Have never heard a bad word about RatWorks so if they are close by they may be a better option - it's hard to explain what a difference someone who knows what they are doing can make, I swear my P15 will match my AA S510R since the service/tune.

Yeah I’ve heard they can be a bit hit and miss, get a good one and they can keep up with the big boys but may not have the ‘look’ some people want. As a shotgun shooter I don’t want to spend loads on a rifle but would like to have a reliable (reasonable) rifle for the days I really want a bit of peace shooting with my boy. I appreciate your offer for taking it into AirFective, I have emailed RatWorks to see what they would charge for a service.

final stupid question, can I shoot it without the moderator on (without effecting accuracy) as I want to see if this may be clipping and causing an issue?

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17 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, any news on your rifle ?

Hi mate, Rat Works don’t work on these rifles but I have just got back from the field. I filled to 210bar (still in the green) and ran 30 shots, the first 20 were bang on at 35yds, the next 10 dropped and were around an inch low and still grouped well but seemed strange as it was a step change and not a gradual drop in POI. I refilled to 210 bar and run another 10 and they were back to zero and grouping well. So, it was pretty good but only for 20 shots and maybe only 10 if I stop filling at 200bar. I then plotted up for 15mins and took a squizzer at 30 yards with a perfect shot so not the shot count the gun claims but 20 shots on a stalk is plenty.

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8 hours ago, Wonkyshot said:

Hi mate, Rat Works don’t work on these rifles but I have just got back from the field. I filled to 210bar (still in the green) and ran 30 shots, the first 20 were bang on at 35yds, the next 10 dropped and were around an inch low and still grouped well but seemed strange as it was a step change and not a gradual drop in POI. I refilled to 210 bar and run another 10 and they were back to zero and grouping well. So, it was pretty good but only for 20 shots and maybe only 10 if I stop filling at 200bar. I then plotted up for 15mins and took a squizzer at 30 yards with a perfect shot so not the shot count the gun claims but 20 shots on a stalk is plenty.

Hello, ok well done

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17 hours ago, Wonkyshot said:

Hi mate, Rat Works don’t work on these rifles but I have just got back from the field. I filled to 210bar (still in the green) and ran 30 shots, the first 20 were bang on at 35yds, the next 10 dropped and were around an inch low and still grouped well but seemed strange as it was a step change and not a gradual drop in POI. I refilled to 210 bar and run another 10 and they were back to zero and grouping well. So, it was pretty good but only for 20 shots and maybe only 10 if I stop filling at 200bar. I then plotted up for 15mins and took a squizzer at 30 yards with a perfect shot so not the shot count the gun claims but 20 shots on a stalk is plenty.

That step change is what happens when a gun comes off reg .say the reg is set to 170 bar (way too high for a sub 12 ) and you fill the air tube to 210 bar .the reg will only allow the gun to fire at 170 bar .which gives consistent energy output and accuracy  .

When the airtube drops below 170 bar  the the reg can't do its job any more and you get the every increasing velocity and pellet drop. 

Depending on the cal and barrel length  etc .the reg for a sub 12 would be set around 100 bar  and for a fac 140 bar .

If yours is around 170 (just a wild guess on my part ,but your gauge should give some indication) then its either been set wrong or its failing /crept  to that .

Regulators while being a great idea .and can be wonderful while working correctly .can become a total pia.when they are not  .

Even the most expensive brands and guns can and do have reg problems .

The cheaper ones can be a night mare pushing sub 12 guns well into fac levels 

Or crippling them with low power or worse .

Maybe get that gun over a chrono my friend. 

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My thoughts exactly Stu, but the OP has stated that the gun is not regged. The error does seem a classic Reg, either sticking/incorrectly set or a blocked vent hole, my money would be on a sticking O ring inside the Reg. I would get it to AirFective, for the £100 service the gun will be returned better than new but it's money I'm guessing.

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5 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

My thoughts exactly Stu, but the OP has stated that the gun is not regged. The error does seem a classic Reg, either sticking/incorrectly set or a blocked vent hole, my money would be on a sticking O ring inside the Reg. I would get it to AirFective, for the £100 service the gun will be returned better than new but it's money I'm guessing

Hello, money well spent, 👍

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