Damascus Tolley

[islandgun]

I would be interested to hear others opinion about loading for the above, 10 bore 3.5 chamber nitro proofed 1977, Im looking at low pressure, 1-1/4 to 1 3/8 oz, Lead, Bismuth, also quite interested in BP... What would you load ?

Edited December 26, 2023 by islandgun

[Dave at kelton]

3 hours ago, islandgun said:

I would be interested to hear others opinion about loading for the above, 10 bore 3.5 chamber nitro proofed 1977, Im looking at low pressure, 1-1/4 to 1 3/8 oz, Lead, Bismuth, also quite interested in BP... What would you load ?

I used to load 1 3/8oz in a 2 5/8” chambered Damascus 10 bore and found it very effective out to 40 yds. It was my preferred gun over decoys. It might be worth trying some of Alan Myers shortcase loads packed out for that chamber/cartridge length.

[harkom]

My 2 cents :

obviously a gun with history, so - get bores measured  before you start researching a load and its build. ( some of these reconfigured guns will have > 10 thou" difference between L & R barrel.) And if it is a SB - still get it measured to give you the information needed to configure the appropriate load  - ie card+felt or plastic wad , also approximate weight of powder appropriate to that bore diameter.

[islandgun]

Thanks Dave and Harkom. duly noted and will certainly get measured, a difficulty now is lack of components I have some/most but no nitro cards and none available form the usual stockist's, Dave has given me a good lead but i just wondered how others would approach this.

[shakin stevens]

Better off buying punches and making all your own wads if that’s the case of equipment drying up.

I have a W.Richards Liverpool sxs 10b with a 3 1/2 inch chamber with extra full and full chokes, not a chance of firing a plastic  wads through this gun .

I use a card cup system over the powder , that can be easily formed with card from a waxed fruit box and a mandril , luckily I have the tools machined by an engineer so it’s an easy process .

Wads and over  shot cards are simple to make with general craft gear and a punch in a drill .

I don’t usually use a 3 1/2 inch case unless I load black powder ,I  just use 3 inch cases with around 42 / 44 g of shot , with a milk carton wrap to protect the barrel , probably don’t need this , but I do it . 
 

Not sure about the Alan Myers’s data , was it proofed tested ? Plus powder batches have long moved on from that era , but it’s still a good starter to working out a load .

I can shoot 2 oz through mine , just can’t see the need for that as the lighter loads do the job nice .

 

 

[scarecrow243]

i use to get 8 bore wads and a card punch from henry kranks worth a try

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, shakin stevens said:

Better off buying punches and making all your own wads if that’s the case of equipment drying up.

I have a W.Richards Liverpool sxs 10b with a 3 1/2 inch chamber with extra full and full chokes, not a chance of firing a plastic  wads through this gun .

I use a card cup system over the powder , that can be easily formed with card from a waxed fruit box and a mandril , luckily I have the tools machined by an engineer so it’s an easy process .

Wads and over  shot cards are simple to make with general craft gear and a punch in a drill .

I don’t usually use a 3 1/2 inch case unless I load black powder ,I  just use 3 inch cases with around 42 / 44 g of shot , with a milk carton wrap to protect the barrel , probably don’t need this , but I do it . 
 

Not sure about the Alan Myers’s data , was it proofed tested ? Plus powder batches have long moved on from that era , but it’s still a good starter to working out a load .

I can shoot 2 oz through mine , just can’t see the need for that as the lighter loads do the job nice .

 

 

Thanks for that, I have a 3/4"  punch which is fine for OS card but not sure if i could use the same as a punch for nitro cards, i will look out some waxed fruit box card, cut some and compare with other size nitro cards, do you use the fibre cup wads, you also confirm what Harkom was saying about checking bore measurements before committing to loads, I posted this in guns rather than reloading because I wanted to see what other people would do, rather than just making loads, I am looking ahead to collecting components from clay and game at the Scottish game fair so need an idea of loads and other "available" components

[shakin stevens]

9 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Thanks for that, I have a 3/4"  punch which is fine for OS card but not sure if i could use the same as a punch for nitro cards, i will look out some waxed fruit box card, cut some and compare with other size nitro cards, do you use the fibre cup wads, you also confirm what Harkom was saying about checking bore measurements before committing to loads, I posted this in guns rather than reloading because I wanted to see what other people would do, rather than just making loads, I am looking ahead to collecting components from clay and game at the Scottish game fair so need an idea of loads and other "available" components

I use the inverted cups over the powder , fruit box card was the best as it didn’t crack on the shoulder when making the cup , that basically looks like a bottle top when you make them , Deakin did make the tools to do the job , found his card brittle though .Not 100% sure I always believed Winchester used this system first in cartridges . 

Never used those fibre cup wads as I found them too tight at the muzzle, yours might be totally different and be fine . 

everything you need I can assure you , you can practically make yourself !
you can buy cork to make a wad or  buy felt , and buy bees wax bars to melt and dip your wad in the hot wax for a better seal .

Sounds like a proper drought on components at the moment , guess the only thing you couldn’t make is gunpowder!

[islandgun]

10 minutes ago, shakin stevens said:

I use the inverted cups over the powder , fruit box card was the best as it didn’t crack on the shoulder when making the cup , that basically looks like a bottle top when you make them , Deakin did make the tools to do the job , found his card brittle though .Not 100% sure I always believed Winchester used this system first in cartridges . 

Never used those fibre cup wads as I found them too tight at the muzzle, yours might be totally different and be fine . 

everything you need I can assure you , you can practically make yourself !
you can buy cork to make a wad or  buy felt , and buy bees wax bars to melt and dip your wad in the hot wax for a better seal .

Sounds like a proper drought on components at the moment , guess the only thing you couldn’t make is gunpowder!

Dave above suggested Deaken for tooling and I will contact him, I have some old win 2.1/4 carts and they have an inverted fibre base wad, will cut one and post, read that CnG okd using fibre cups with nitro card as a direct swap for plastic. Got a couple of tubs of blue and longshot and use very little so should last a while

 

[rbrowning2]

keep an eye out on the auctions like holts as components do appear including 10 bore from time to time.

 

[shakin stevens]

12 hours ago, islandgun said:

Dave above suggested Deaken for tooling and I will contact him, I have some old win 2.1/4 carts and they have an inverted fibre base wad, will cut one and post, read that CnG okd using fibre cups with nitro card as a direct swap for plastic. Got a couple of tubs of blue and longshot and use very little so should last a while

 

His tools are spot on , and he understands what you require , I know he retired  then fired back up again when the King collection of fowling guns were sold , as most of those guns had no cases or tools with them , Myers’s sold them for scrap ! 
It’s nothing a good man couldn’t  machine for you if you know your diameters , I’ve had them made before then sold them with guns .

Ask Deakin first , you might have to badger him mind to make them ! As he will be out shooting every day .

failing that let me know when you are on the mainland and I could start a few up for you , I’m still up here in Scotland .

[islandgun]

Thanks for that, a great offer, I will contact Graham D in the new year and hopefully he will help me out. It might be a thought to do a few loads in time to deliver to CnG at the game fair for testing. 

[islandgun]

Chewed through some 10 bore carts, top  Cheddite, middle Remington both with plastic base wads, bottom old Winchester with paper base wad, reason for posting is to note the folded powder cup on the Win, which is similar to the Graham D over powder card