Buzzer Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 one for you pigeon guides, what is an average days bag using a guide? In my 20+ years shooting pigeon i have never used one, but im thinking of buying a day or two just for the change of scenery and a short brake away. Buzzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE PREDATOR Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 good question buzzer i too have thought about it and also would like to know,i know one guide in next county and what he gets, money wise and birds but i can have better days here if you put the effort in which i must quote most pigeon guides do that i know of,everyone knows time and travel cost money to find what birds are up too,come on guides heres two potential customers :what: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 No guide can promise you, a certain number of birds will be shot in a day. They will try their best but, the pigeons may not cooperate (they are wild birds) and you might miss them if they do come. I have never heard of a guide giving money back guarantees. Try ringing some of the guides that advertise in the shooting magazines, I,m sure they will agree with what I have said. Lets not provoke any subtle advertising, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.I. countrysports U.K. GARY Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 A difficult question to answer, but I will attempt it. First of all.... I have read a great deal of bad comments about guides in these pages, I have also read some pretty poor replys from the guides... For guns that have access to reasonable pigeon shooting, the guides service is not really for you. Unless your day turned out to be a very good one, then I am pretty sure that you would feel dissapointed, and that you would think that maybe your time would have been better spent driving around your patch. Example: The other day a client (regular pigeon shooter, with access to his own ground) loaded a very heavy cartridge bag and a case of 250 into the back of my landrover. I asked how many cartridges he had with him, and he replied about 400. The day was very still, quite warm, and the birds are still flocked up. Any pigeon shooter would know that it would be a bloody miracle to shoot that amount on that day, yet he still humped all the cartridges to the hide site. Needless to say, at the end of the day he wasn't that pleased, even though he shot 41, which I thought was a great bag for the day, and on Rape. Also, in 20 years of woodpigeon shooting on good ground, I have never fired 400 cartridges to my own gun in a day, regardless of crop. IT IS ALL A QUESTION OF WHAT WE THINK IS A GOOD DAY... I am happy as a guide if the client has the opportunity to fire 100 shots. It is entirely up to the client what the bag size is at the end of the day. On some day's there is many more than a 100 fired, and on poor day's it will be less than 100. One thing is for sure... If the weather is bad, then the chances are that it won't be a red letter day. In a guides area of operations the pigeons are under a great deal of pressure. They are shot at, and moved much more than an area without guides. The birds can be difficult to decoy in these areas (stands to reason really) What a guide should have is access to plenty of pigeons. If he hasn't got the pigeons, then surely he hasn't got a business. He should not fill his clients full of excuses when it didn't happen, and he should give a true account of what to expect when you make a booking. Many of my regular clients have no access to any pigeon shooting. They are keen sportsmen who love the chance of shooting a few pigeons. Many live in cities and have very busy lives. A day taken from work is precious time. They want all the preparations done for them. They are more than willing to pay the fee and be taken out for the day, away from the pressure and stress of business. The same applies to foreign guns. The main reason they come here to the U.K. is: As of the end of January to the start of September the woodpigeon is in closed season for the breeding period. They travel here to hunt pigeons as they can't do it in their home country. On a closing note: Please remember that for guns that have no access to pigeon shooting we provide a very good service. The guides have no magical powers over the woodpigeon. Just like your own shooting, good day's are normally down to a great deal of quality reconnaissance, and this is what you are paying most of the guides fee for. Fuel, as we all know, is very expensive and guides should be using a great deal of it. It would be a very fortunate thing to select one day out of the whole calendar year, book that day with a guide, and shoot a big bag of woodpigeons. Professional guides should be able to inform you the exact amount of birds they kill a year, and when the more productive periods are. What you should expect from the guide is the utmost of professionalism, good quality equipment, access to good areas, and a true account of what to expect, good or bad. By the way... We shoot 11,000 - 15,000 a year (the fluctuation being down to the cropping programme in the more productive areas) and so far this month have killed 297 an average of 33 per person per day... Good luck... GARY WILSON G.I. country sports U.K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 No guide can promise you, a certain number of birds will be shot in a day. Let's change the question Who has used a guide and what did you shoot? Did/do you repeat the experiment? You don't have to tell us who it was! I'm also thinking of answering an advert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 We shoot 11,000 - 15,000 a year (the fluctuation being down to the cropping programme in the more productive areas) and so far this month have killed 297 an average of 33 per person per day... I used to get and organise pigeon shooting for a BASC affiliated club and I can foresee a lot of problems that guides face. They have to balance the needs of the crop owner with those of their clients. A grower wants his crops protected as well as possible. He does not want to see hordes of pigeons eating their way through his income while someone waits for the numbers to build up for a big bag. I you don't deliver crop protection then someone else, probably one of your keener clients/club members, will be getting all the shooting for themselves. If a guide is to have access to a lot of shooting, and he/she needs to, then they have to get someone onto the land whenever the owners want them there. Unless the guide has access to something really special then average bags have got to be the order of the day. Some mercinary gamekeepers, who can keep people off the land, can 'give' certain friends some really big bags, but you or I won't get a look in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE PREDATOR Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 clear and honest answer thank you gary i did not mean to sound like "answer if you dare" if thats how it came across just interrested,i myself often take people for days out and it is hard to make things go your way "as they are wild birds" and some not as good a shot as others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzer Posted March 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Have to agree with ya Predator, I to have taken pepole out who clam to be good shots , also you can watch a field for days that is heaving with pigeon only to find on the day of the shoot they have gone! as Gary & your self have said they are a wild bird witch makes them a true sporting bird in my book. Ihave learnt in my years of pigeon shooting that you have to take the good days with the bad All the best Buzzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NGhost Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 I had a day out before I had my own shoot. £100 all kit and a lot of work by the guide. I moved at midday for 4 birds (8 shots) later I shot 16 for about 24 shots. I would do the chepest version (dump you in field with your own kit) £40 (if I did not have a shoot) once or twice a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterswind9465 Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 From my experiance I would say to a client come for 5 days out of which I would expect 1 great day of 50 + birds 2 good days of 30 + and 1 bad day of upto 15 birds, as you all know when you have a good wind and no rain they will fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK 1 Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 hw. if i was a client who wanted to come to you for five days is it correct then i should only expect to have 1 good day of 50+ birds the other 2 day's 30+ & 1day of 15 that only accumalates to 4 day's ,what would i do on day 5 or should i just go home & what would it cost me to shoot approx 125 birds+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterswind9465 Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 wooops I ment 4 days it would cost you the same to shoot 125+ as any other day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluky_poke Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 A sensible and interesting response Gary, thanks. As someone who has no option but to use guides, (I live in London and I've not had an opportunity to join a club or affiliate) I can see the issue from both sides. Customer satisfaction, like any other business, is all about setting client expectations. Quite how any particular guide does this is up to them, but clearly, 400 cartridges for a single day, is by any stretch of the imagination, exceeding all expectations! By virtue of someone taking 400 shells out on a day, should clearly indicate to a guide that expectations need set. A subtle word may have prevented disappointment at the end of the day. In the meantime, I'll continue to use guides and value the service they provide. Those of you who think nothing about walking onto land for a day, think next time of those shooters who have no such opportunity. I've never gone out with more than 100 shells, I've never run out and I've never been disappointed. Shooting is as much about being out in the country, for those of us living in towns, as it is about large bags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.I. countrysports U.K. GARY Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 Thank you FLUKY POKE... I will take your advice on board... I think problems in this area (expectations) stem from bag photos in the sporting press, and indeed, some of the photos that all the guides (myself included) use to advertise our business. This can and possibly does mislead new customers to think that their booked trip with a pigeon guide is going to be hot barreled action for the whole day. Certainly, a difficult one to get right. Obviously, we want to show potential customers what the sport is like at its best, however, this should not be misleading. I do explain to potential clients in detail, what to expect when they make a booking. I do hope that I have got it somewhere near right. Thanks for your comments... GARY... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 I've never gone out with more than 100 shells, I've never run out and I've never been disappointed. Shooting is as much about being out in the country, for those of us living in towns, as it is about large bags. I remember a cattle dealer telling me once that "A returning customer is the best advertisement". I'm sure that I read once, probably in Archie Coates's original book, that it is allways best to take enough cartridges for a bumper day, JUST IN CASE! Even if you have access to regular shooting, it is allways nice to see someone else's country. There are roving syndicates of pheasant shooters who travel all over the place for this reason. These chaps are paying around £30.00 a bird to shoot pheasants. Our wildfowling club members pay BASC over £4.00 a bird for every duck they shoot on the foreshore. Why complain about paying £1.50 (on a bad day) a bird for shooting pigeons without having to plan anything other, perhaps, than a day off work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Pudding Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 in my limited opinion a good day out consists of 15 shots and lets not be too greedy here......mmmmm 9 birds down.Enjoy your surroundings, put the mobile on silent , take a nap in the hedge back ,get down the pub for a pint and tell your mate about the 3000yrd high bird that you put down with improved cylinder. :unsure: all the best yis yp :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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