Conor O'Gorman Posted December 9 Report Share Posted December 9 BASC hosted 20 members of Police Scotland’s firearms licensing team last week as part of an ongoing commitment to provide training support for the force. The two-day program provided participants with an in-depth understanding of key topics related to firearms and shooting, reinforcing the strong working relationship between BASC and Police Scotland. These two sessions marked the fifth and sixth CPD days that BASC has delivered for Police Scotland this year, underlining the ongoing commitment to professional development and cooperation. More details here: https://basc.org.uk/basc-continues-to-support-police-scotland-through-training/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 9 Report Share Posted December 9 34 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: BASC hosted 20 members of Police Scotland’s firearms licensing team last week as part of an ongoing commitment to provide training support for the force. The two-day program provided participants with an in-depth understanding of key topics related to firearms and shooting, reinforcing the strong working relationship between BASC and Police Scotland. These two sessions marked the fifth and sixth CPD days that BASC has delivered for Police Scotland this year, underlining the ongoing commitment to professional development and cooperation. More details here: https://basc.org.uk/basc-continues-to-support-police-scotland-through-training/ Are the Police paying the costs of this service or are your members funding Police training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted December 10 Author Report Share Posted December 10 16 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said: Are the Police paying the costs of this service or are your members funding Police training? BASC provides training for firearms licensing departments free of charge. This is because it is in BASC members’ interest that the police are as well informed as possible when making licensing decisions. It also fosters good relationships and encourages partnership working where we are regarded as a ‘critical friend’ rather than part of a ‘gun lobby'. A mandatory College of Policing training course is being rolled out over the next two years in England & Wales and firearms licensing staff in every police force will undergo the new training. That training course is being supported by a one-day awareness session delivered under the umbrella organisation of the British Shooting Sports Council (BSSC). All BSSC members wish to support police training as it provides a clear member benefit. BSSC includes all shooting organisations both live quarry and target. Which shooting organisation are you a member of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 (edited) I am a member of the NGO. Edited December 10 by Weihrauch17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted December 10 Author Report Share Posted December 10 17 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: I am a member of the NGO. Thanks, why are you concerned about BASC providing training to the police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 2 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Thanks, why are you concerned about BASC providing training to the police? Where did I say I was concerned, it is not my money you are giving away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 More excellent work. This can make a real difference. Do you do the same in England? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 I wasn’t aware there was a ‘transition to non-lead ammunition’? Which cartridge manufacturers are ceasing lead shot manufacture, and when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted December 10 Author Report Share Posted December 10 1 hour ago, Weihrauch17 said: Where did I say I was concerned, it is not my money you are giving away? If the NGO were to do police training free of charge would you regard that as giving your money away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 2 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: If the NGO were to do police training free of charge would you regard that as giving your money away? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted December 10 Author Report Share Posted December 10 1 hour ago, oowee said: More excellent work. This can make a real difference. Do you do the same in England? Thanks. Yes, on an ongoing basis not only on firearms licensing but many other topics relating to recreational shooting and the countryside. For example, last year, BASC hosted more than 100 police officers, council rangers and other staff for a training day covering wildlife management, firearms law and shooting sports. Attendees came from across the East of England to take part in the event at Hanningfield in Essex. Organised by BASC and Essex Police’s rural crime team, the event brought together a range of expertise on wildlife and firearms legislation. Attendees listened to several talks from BASC, the Environment Agency, Bird Aware Essex and the Angling Trust, and got to try airgunning. https://basc.org.uk/basc-delivers-police-training-on-firearms-law-and-wildlife-management/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted December 10 Author Report Share Posted December 10 4 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: Yes. Was this a waste of your money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 Just now, Conor O'Gorman said: Was this a waste of your money? The Police FEO's and Wildlife Crime Officers administer the law, they should be the experts in their own fields and not need external training paid for by somebody else. The Police should have their own internal experts providing any training requirements to new recruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted December 10 Author Report Share Posted December 10 1 minute ago, Weihrauch17 said: The Police FEO's and Wildlife Crime Officers administer the law, they should be the experts in their own fields and not need external training paid for by somebody else. The Police should have their own internal experts providing any training requirements to new recruits. Was it a waste of your money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 Yes, I disagree with providing free training when they should be self sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 3 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: Yes, I disagree with providing free training when they should be self sufficient. It's surely in the interest of BASC members (and other shooters) to have the officers well informed? Of course it would be better if they had sufficient training but life's not like that. Here is a great opportunity to ensure that they not only understand the legislation but also the implications from a user perspective. A classic for me was the rural police team here, coming out with me on some cull work and realising the difficulty of advising them when and where the work was taking place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 1 minute ago, oowee said: It's surely in the interest of BASC members (and other shooters) to have the officers well informed? Of course it would be better if they had sufficient training but life's not like that. Here is a great opportunity to ensure that they not only understand the legislation but also the implications from a user perspective. A classic for me was the rural police team here, coming out with me on some cull work and realising the difficulty of advising them when and where the work was taking place. They should be trained and well informed before they start their roles by internal trainers, if the Police don't have the skills to train their own staff who administer laws around Licensing and Wildlife Crime then that is simply unacceptable. Why should BASC / NGO members fund Police training! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted December 10 Author Report Share Posted December 10 56 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: Yes, I disagree with providing free training when they should be self sufficient. Why are you criticising the NGO for providing free training to the police in a thread about BASC providing free training to the police? Would it not be more effective to contact the NGO directly with your views given that NGO staff do not post or engage with members on this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 17 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Why are you criticising the NGO for providing free training to the police in a thread about BASC providing free training to the police? Would it not be more effective to contact the NGO directly with your views given that NGO staff do not post or engage with members on this forum? Because you asked if I agreed with it. Your argument that your members should pay for Police training because their own isn't up to standard is farcical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HantsRob Posted December 11 Report Share Posted December 11 Conor, My first thought was the same as Weihrauch's, as in why is the BASC membership funding what I can only describe as "shooting for dummies" level training. I also agree this should have core competence in each county force, with one specific police force to provide expertise and gold standard to lead the other forces. I believe Hampshire was leading the way with licencing, CoP should be leading core fundamental training and core skills, or at least the framework to be delivered. That is not to say I fully agree that it shouldn't have BASC input. I do believe that makes you more 'friend' than 'lobbyist'. However it could be perceived as buying a seat at the table. I DO believe it's in everyones interest to have a more knowledgeable firearms licencing team. I wouldn't mind someone whom I assume is either a vulunteer/unpaid, or someone that is on the payroll full time doing this course. One is free minus expenses, and the other is an overhead to the membership regardless of if they attend or not. But I can't shake the fact that it shouldn't need BASC to perform a basic and fundamental package. You were turning me towards being a BASC supporter, but I do feel like you baited Weihrauch's genuine comment that others will have thought, and then your comments read as defensive as if you're being attacked. I hope you are also able to reflect tomorrow, and see a different perspective even if you continue to disagree with it. Having some fair degree of insight into CPD days, there's a massive difference to what the chiefs and organisers think of the value to a CPD day, compared to those being voluntold onto the courses. I would wonder how many experienced FEOs would actually feel about being told about the different types of guns and their uses, and if they felt that it's a bit of a low bird that's being pillowed rather than useful and a valuable lesson on how to improve performance. That is not to knock the training package, but maybe to the level it's delivered at. Point 1 on your list in the URL seems...... well, see the paragraph above. Around the GL and "voluntary" (I'll try not to laugh at that) transition to lead, that may actually hold some actual usefulness. That said, if there is a change to the GL, I'd really hope the licencing team would already have been informed! I fear the actual practical use of this training is close to nil for day to day operations of an FEO. I doubt it has any impact at the lower FEO levels. But I do believe it will foster relationships with more senior staff on both sides, and will help the "campaign" for more understanding around firearms holders and the police. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I like the story, I just don't agree with the level and efficacy. Finally, if I were a BASC member, I wouldn't be opposed to this, I'd just wish it were more practicable information, and would have hoped they already had all this knowledge internally. They probably enjoyed the day out of the office and a nice lunch though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted December 12 Report Share Posted December 12 I'm closing this thread and have removed some posts, to be honest the admin are getting fed up with the constand bickering from all sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts