new rifle

[Marine1980]

This new a3 version should have been in theatre as early as January but all orders have been put back to March/April. As for the comment earlier about the Colt - Timber wolf this was found to be a far better 338 rifle but typical MOD prefere to make changes rather than admit defeat, " Look at the SA80" we should have been using M16 (varients a long time ago).

 

Regards Lee

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

Its staggering stuff but its what the guys do for a living and they also aren't too bothered about killing or injuring the target. Obviously a kill is preferable but any hit generally stops them shooting back. For the shots made I also guess there will have been an awful lot of misses

 

I remember reading yonks ago about the justification of changing from 7.62 to 0.223.

 

Apart from the logic of being able to carry more rounds (the 0.223 being much lighter), and lots more bullets in the magazine etc, one claim was that the reduced lethality of the 0.223 was to be desired - if you wound a chap then his mates have to look after him, whereas if you kill him then he's dead, and his mates can carry on doing their bit to try and shoot you!

 

Don

[Marine1980]

Don, this only works when your fighting normal everyday human beings. When your fighting people that are normaly high on drugs and dont care about the guy next to them id doesnt really work how it should. I know from experience especially using the 5.56 round you can ofter put many round in to a tarket and he will keep coming. At first you think you have missed but its the mans adrenaline which keeps him going.

 

Lee

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

Don, this only works when your fighting normal everyday human beings. When your fighting people that are normaly high on drugs and dont care about the guy next to them id doesnt really work how it should. I know from experience especially using the 5.56 round you can ofter put many round in to a tarket and he will keep coming. At first you think you have missed but its the mans adrenaline which keeps him going.

 

Lee

 

I remember reading about the final assault (on Mount Longden?) in the Falklands, and the Argies were using 7.62 and did tend to stop our guys when hit, whereas often several hits with a 0.223 were required to stop them.

 

Sounds rather detached, but I can imagine the effect when you compare the energy values of 7.62 v 0.223

Don

[Oly]

Don, this only works when your fighting normal everyday human beings. When your fighting people that are normaly high on drugs and dont care about the guy next to them id doesnt really work how it should. I know from experience especially using the 5.56 round you can ofter put many round in to a tarket and he will keep coming. At first you think you have missed but its the mans adrenaline which keeps him going.

 

I know this forum is about guns & shooting etc, but are these real life accounts really suitable for a public forum? Inparticular PW's 'younger' audience Not wanting to sound like a kill joy...just raise the point.

[Hunter]

If you are hit in the head/chest/stomach with a .223, you will be 'stopped'. (pending any ballistic armours of course)

It is not the intention of our army to kill every enemy. It is the aim to disable and prevent further attacks but the enemy. Ever wonder why we use FMJ? if you want to do the job properly, our hunting rifles loaded with decent expanding ammunition would have a far greater effect of 'stopping' the enemy.

The Hague Convention (not to be confused with the Geneva Convention) for forbids the use of weapons that cause unnecessary suffering to the human body. This includes any bullet with an exposed cores, or bullet designed toexpand or flatten in the human body.

 

This is interesting, as it seems to work differently for 'Counter Terrorist' and Police firearms units. Probably because both of these matters are not 'War', and immidiet lethality may be required (suicide bombers etc).

 

Wait a minute.. I think I just opened a can of worms.. better put a lid on it

[Hunter]

Don, this only works when your fighting normal everyday human beings. When your fighting people that are normaly high on drugs and dont care about the guy next to them id doesnt really work how it should. I know from experience especially using the 5.56 round you can ofter put many round in to a tarket and he will keep coming. At first you think you have missed but its the mans adrenaline which keeps him going.

 

I know this forum is about guns & shooting etc, but are these real life accounts really suitable for a public forum? Inparticular PW's 'younger' audience Not wanting to sound like a kill joy...just raise the point.

 

Infact the young ones of today.. only see war from American glorified films, full of Heros, miracles, and special effects.

When war is full of a lot of sickening things, that if forgotten, will only happen time after time. The younger generation need to see more about what really happens in a war, then from movies and DVD's, or consol games.

[Marine1980]

Don, this only works when your fighting normal everyday human beings. When your fighting people that are normaly high on drugs and dont care about the guy next to them id doesnt really work how it should. I know from experience especially using the 5.56 round you can ofter put many round in to a tarket and he will keep coming. At first you think you have missed but its the mans adrenaline which keeps him going.

 

I know this forum is about guns & shooting etc, but are these real life accounts really suitable for a public forum? Inparticular PW's 'younger' audience Not wanting to sound like a kill joy...just raise the point.

 

Its a good job we all shoot plastic rabbits and rubber pheasents on are weekend shoots then! You know the ones we take our sons and daughters to!!!!

[Devilishdave]

The rifle in question is .338 and is a trade off between 7.62 and .50 for anti personel and anti materiel sniping. As far as I am aware there is no handloading done on brit ammo yet. although the green spot ammo is match grade ammo. I beleive the yanks work up a load for a particular rifle then batches are made for that specific rifle.

 

Dave

[deadeye ive]

The rifle in question is .338 and is a trade off between 7.62 and .50 for anti personel and anti materiel sniping. As far as I am aware there is no handloading done on brit ammo yet. although the green spot ammo is match grade ammo. I beleive the yanks work up a load for a particular rifle then batches are made for that specific rifle.

 

Dave

Thanks Dave

[Big_Sam]

Its a .338 alright, not sure what varient, could be lapua mag.

[sandy22]

I remember reading about the final assault (on Mount Longden?) in the Falklands, and the Argies were using 7.62 and did tend to stop our guys when hit, whereas often several hits with a 0.223 were required to stop them.

 

Sounds rather detached, but I can imagine the effect when you compare the energy values of 7.62 v 0.223

Don

 

That's curious - I wonder where you read that. I always thought that, by and large, both sides were using 7.62 rather than 5.56 in the Falklands conflict.

[Fleabag]

There's an article in the Sunday Mail magazine on this, and the new army sniping school.

 

All about the new sniping teams being trained - the sniper and his spotter - very interesting.

 

One incident in Iraq 4 years ago involved Royal Marine Corporal Matt Hughes and his spotter - wait for it......

 

In the midst of a fierce gale he shot an Iraqi in the chest at a range of 900 yards. Not bad, you may say, but to do this he aimed off 56ft to the left and 35ft above his target

 

Don

you have to dig your toes in when you fire that big sucker,or you end up facing the other way

[OneEye]

I remember reading about the final assault (on Mount Longden?) in the Falklands, and the Argies were using 7.62 and did tend to stop our guys when hit, whereas often several hits with a 0.223 were required to stop them.

 

Sounds rather detached, but I can imagine the effect when you compare the energy values of 7.62 v 0.223

Don

 

That's curious - I wonder where you read that. I always thought that, by and large, both sides were using 7.62 rather than 5.56 in the Falklands conflict.

 

The Brits all had the FN SLR in 7.62. The reasons for changing to 5.56 was that it was the new standard NATO calibre (the Yanks having led the way with the M-16), that the British Army needed an assault rifle rather than a semi-auto, and that the 7.62 was too heavy a round for 'peacekeeping' and 'aid to the civil power' operations, This last was based on experience in the Province, where Provos had been shot, the bullet exiting them (or misses), passing through walls of houses, and endangering their occupants.

 

The reason the SA80 was ordered was that Royal Ordnance had a design lying on the shelves and Thatcher wanted them to get the order, to increase the value of RO with a new big contract before flogging it off.

[flytie]

Its a .338 alright, not sure what varient, could be lapua mag.

 

I am told that the British snipers do indeed favout the lapua mag!

 

ft

[Vegeta]

Was thinking of getting a sako TRG 42 is .338 lapua mag for long range stuff but my god the price of ammunition is mental and considering getting permission to reload here in Ireland is close to impossible it really ruled that one out for me.