Bullet weights for Deer and Fox

[njc110381]

I'm just getting into homeloading and am a little confused on bullet weights. In the Lee book it states that a 6.5x55 can be loaded with bullets ranging from 70-160 grains, yet most factory ammo is around the 120-140 range. When shooting a .243 the weights range from about 40 to 110 grains. What I'm thinking is a 85 grain bullet at 3350fps is going to have a flatter trajectory than a 140 at 2528fps (isn't it?). If these lighter bullets (although maybe not as light as 85 grains) will do the job on Deer then that would be great. Once I get started I'm going to be after a lot more Foxes with the gun and the flatter trajectory is going to be a real bonus. Foxes don't need 140 grains to put them on the floor twitching! I'd ideally be using the same load for everything.

 

In short, what I'm needing to find out is how low I can go regarding bullet weights without giving up too much knockdown power? A long range Red stag on a Scottish hill may need the grunt of the heavier bullet to get good results, but I'm not likely to shoot much past 100 yards and then my largest target will probably be Red hinds in Devon. Most shooting will be woodland or highseat Roe. The bullet must be capable of taking the Deer with a safe border of overkill, because I'd rather hit a Fox too hard than a Deer not hard enough.

 

Do any of you more experienced stalkers have any advice for me?

[tulkyuk]

Which calibre - 243 or 6.5

 

a 75grn B/T from a 243 will knock down any fox and will take out all deer upto including Roe (will also take out a fallow with good shot placement)

[Dunkield]

I would go with 140grain as good allrounder, better to be slightly over for a fox than slightly under for a deer.

If you go with 2 or 3 loads you will soon get bored of scope fiddling and load testing them all.

[loopy bunny blaster]

What I'm thinking is a 85 grain bullet at 3350fps is going to have a flatter trajectory than a 140 at 2528fps (isn't it?).

 

 

yes it will, the heavier and slower you go the more loopy the shot gets

[Dunkield]

I wouldn't get bogged down in theory and numbers.

A big red in Devon needs a fair whack to knock it down, as you have seen.

If you wanted super fast and flat a .243 would have been a better bet than a 6.5

[pete evans]

i use one load in my .243 for fox and muntjac to hill reds. 100grain speer spbt seems to do the job. i zero 1.5 inch high at 100 meters this makes the bullet cross the sight line at approx 50 meters and 175 meters with highest at approx 140 meters. basically everything up to 200 meters i aim straight on for and at 250 i would move up to put the cross hair on the spine and let the bullet drop in. i dont need to shoot much beyond that but the trajectory drops off sharply so i would try to get closer.

lighter bullets dont mean a flatter trajectory as they may not be as efficient as the heavier loads. check some of the ballistic tables on some of the reloading sites. some of the 70 grain .243 stuff has similar trajectories to the 100 grain stuff.

the only down fall i see to having the same load for everything is that on fox i would prefer a more frangable load as the 100 grain soft point exits retaining a fair amount of energy. foxes still die just the same.

 

pete

[Dunkield]

He (njc110381) has a 6.5x55, before anyone else answers with .243 recipes

[njc110381]

Sorry, I'll be shooting with the 6.5!

 

I've got a great calculator to work these things out, and it's giving me some interesting numbers (those I should be avoiding )

 

100 yard zero....

70grn at 3416fps MV is carrying 1131ft-lbs and 2.8" drop at 200 yards

85grn at 3350fps MV is carrying 1437ft-lbs and 2.78" drop at 200 yards

100grn at 3177fps MV is carrying 1608ft-lbs and 3.09" drop at 200 yards

120grn at 2812fps MV is carrying 1583ft-lbs and 4.1" drop at 200 yards

129grn at 2664fps MV is carrying 1550ft-lbs and 4.64" drop at 200 yards

140grn at 2528fps MV is carrying 1542ft-lbs and 5.21" drop at 200 yards

160grn at 2354fps MV is carrying 1568ft-lbs and 6.06" drop at 200 yards

 

So after avoiding all the numbers (sorry stu but I had to look!) I'm thinking 100 grn would be the best compromise? Obviously once the bullet hits the retained energy on the way through the Deer matters, and I assume the heavier bullet wins on that part? Any more good advice will be happily taken in!

 

To all you experienced guys these numbers are probably total b0110ck5 and mean nothing, but it's kept me amused for half an hour working it out

[CharlieT]

As much as anything it will depend on how the different weights work with your gun. I find that with my Tikka 129 gr are superbly accurate and therefore the best compromise for me. I would rather keep the weight up as high as I can for deer whilst still being a good foxing round. I zero 1 1/4"- 1 1/2" high at 100yds.

[duey]

There are a lot of variables in choosing a bullet weight for a rifle and you may well find that it wont suit both the weights that you are considering, so find out what your twist rate is for the barrel that you have and that will automatically give you an optimum bullet weight range that is best suited.

another problem that may occure through using a 50ish grain bullet and a 110ish grain bullet is that they may well require different types of powder to gain optimum performance which will in its self create accuracy problems unless the rifle is thoroughly cleaned between bullet useage, and also te aggrivation of completely different zeros

 

i suspect that the rifle will lend its self to the heavier bullets so stick with them, they will be fine for foxing also just always be sure of a good backstop!

 

ian

[Dunkield]

100 yard zero firing 140gn Fed's in my gun, gives a 4" drop at 200 yards.

[njc110381]

100 yard zero firing 140gn Fed's in my gun, gives a 4" drop at 200 yards.

 

Well that's just p***ed on my bonfire hasn't it! I'm going to try the 129grn Hornady SSTs to see what they do, I've read good reports about them. If that doesn't work then I'm back to stealing Mikes 140s for a bit. I need to get some case lube and start loading, I've only got 6 accurate rounds left

[duey]

Another direction to go in, as i dont know as to how far into reloading you are, do you have a chamber measurement for your bullets seating depth or are you just loading to the published C.O.L ?

 

ian

[njc110381]

At the moment I'm loading the Minimum load of Varget under a 140grn softpoint at 2980 COL. That was a quick recipe put together by copying the length and (guessed) charge of a PPU FMJ round. I've not gone into it any more yet but the PPU shoots through the same hole at 50 yards so I thought it was worth a try! We tried Reloader19 (slow is supposed to be good in 6.5) but it wasn't that good behind the bullets I was using. I've just ordered some Lapua brass and 129grn Hornady SSTs, when I get them I'll be working on a load based on them. Hopefully I'll find something accurate.

[duey]

the best way is to measure your chamber and build your bullet accordingly if you need any help on that send me a PM.

it maybe that the best COL may not fit the magazine so will have to adapt to get best compromise

[njc110381]

I've tried a friends homeloads in my chamber and the bolt doesn't close. They fit the mag so I doubt that's going to be a problem. I'll borrow the kit to measure my chamber. I can't remember how to use the info for best results, but it's written somewhere!

 

EDIT... Sorry, forgot to add thanks for the offer of help. I may get back to you on that if I can't find the info in my book

[Oly]

I'm just getting into homeloading and am a little confused on bullet weights. In the Lee book it states that a 6.5x55 can be loaded with bullets ranging from 70-160 grains, yet most factory ammo is around the 120-140 range. When shooting a .243 the weights range from about 40 to 110 grains.

 

Interesting to hear how your getting on there njc, I remember Flytie saying the same about the large range of bullet weights for the 6.5x55 ( http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...hl=6\.5x55 ) but I've still yet to see where you can realistically obtain this range of weights. As it is, with most of the 6.5x55 weights available being in the 120-140 range, and ammo being not that available - it proves that the .243Win retains the best all-round calibre IMO.

[njc110381]

The lighter bullets seem to be hard to come by. In the shops local to me you can buy factory 100, 120, 129, 140 and 156grn for various tasks (fragmenting, expanding and target). I think the lighter loads are a bit more specialist and allow the 6.5 to be a long range varminter, but as a rule it's a Deer/Target calibre. I picked it over the .243 because if you put yourself out a little and reload, it has a vast range of ammo available for it from 80grn right up to 160grn. It also has more knockdown power on larger game when fed the heavy stuff.

[Oly]

That's what I'm getting at though njc, can you actually get hold of the 70gn bullet heads even for reloading over here As otherwise you have a very loopy heavy round for foxes

[flytie]

That's what I'm getting at though njc, can you actually get hold of the 70gn bullet heads even for reloading over here As otherwise you have a very loopy heavy round for foxes

 

Oly, 80 to 160 @ http://www.midwayuk.com/apps/ebrowse.exe/b...85+***+9016+***

There are others.

 

ft

Edited January 6, 2008 by flytie

[Oly]

Cheers flytie

[casts_by_fly]

NJC,

 

You're over thinking this too much. Yes, I understand you want a flat bullet for fox and a heavier bullet for deer. Look at it this way though. You have about a 5" diameter circle kill zone on a fox. Deer will be the same or larger. If you go with a 129 gr head at ~2600 fps (well under max loadings according to Hogdon) you'll have a head that is heavy enough for deer but has a MPBR of 242 yd. So you sight it in ~2.5" high at 100 and you'll be 2.5" low at 242. If you aim center of kill zone you'll be within +/- 2.5" all the way out to 242 yd. When will you need to shoot further? Should you need to stretch out to 300 yd or more you'll have to estimate holdover anyway no matter which load you use.

 

If you drop to a 120 gr head ~2800 fps you'll only add 20 yd to you MPBR. Going up to 140 at 2550 you realistically don't loose ANY MPBR (7 yd).

 

So start with the heads that you can realistically get. Pick one that will give the terminal performance you want (120 gr ballistic tip would be my choice if available). Then work up a load that is accurate in your rifle. It looks like you've started to do that with the 129 SST. That bullet will do you just fine and is very comparable to the ballistic tip. Now just pick a loading that works for your gun and shoot it.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[Dunkield]

You're over thinking this too much.

Post #5

Put the calculator down and get out shooting.

And the 6.5 is the undisputed allround calibre for UK hunting

[njc110381]

I've ordered 129grn SSTs, and 100 Lapua cases. Now I need a powder measure thingy, some case lube and a tin hat!

Edited January 9, 2008 by njc110381

[Oly]

And the 6.5 is the undisputed allround calibre for UK hunting

 

Must be true, Stuart said so!

 

I've ordered 129grn SSTs, and 100 Lapua cases. Now I need a powder measure thingy, some case lube and a tin hat!

 

Whatever powder thrower you get don't rely on it, I trickle every round. Imperial sizing die wax ( http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/catego...&type=store )is really good instead of normal case lube, it'll last forever (as your use it very sparingly) and you are much less likely to create dents in the case etc.