njc110381 Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 I've read a couple of posts on here in the past about open certs. Some forces seem to be very fair, others are totally unreasonable! I've been told that it will take 3 years in my area, and I'm not too happy about that to be honest. Why is it that I can go out shooting over loads of land with various people (some have shot for 20 years or more) getting experience all over the place and firing hundreds (if not thousands) of rounds, yet I have to wait for 3 years? Some other guy could get his cert, shoot once a month on his only permission, and get his open cert at the same time as me! I may be sounding a little pushy here, but that's just not on. Does anyone have any idea how I could speed things up? I'm already making regular ammo purchases, and also searching hard for permissions. If I can drag the FEO out to a new farm every two months then I'm hoping it's not going to take 18 land checks before he gets p****d off with it and starts acting fair. I was also shooting for a year with my mentor before they managed to get my certificate to me (because they lost it!), surely that counts for something? Being a gardener in a rural area I genuinely do get a lot of requests to shoot vermin as a one off job by my customers. It doesn't look good having to drag the police (in a jam sandwich rather than an unmarked vehicle) up their drive to look at the place so I don't bother. It's not worth the fuss (although this loses me money)! I really feel that an open certificate could save both parties a load of trouble (mainly me, I couldn't care less about their work load as it's up to them how busy I make them). How can I get this across without sounding rude? :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Merseyside = 5 years webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 1 year :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 A polite letter explaining all of your experience and that you could use it as part of your work along with a handful of land request forms. Maybe suggest that only the .22 and 17hmr are open if they have an issue with the 6.5x55. Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choke it Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 18 months for me with gwent police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 touchy subject this,depends on force and mood i think,i had my fac for a year ,and asked about it,and the reply was 3 years normally,but may allow it after 2 depending on how much experiance i had notched up,(think they meem ammo used),but a mate of mine ,had his 22 for a year ,applied for a 22.250 ,and had an open ticket when it came back.may have been a mistake ,who knows.i rekon you need to ring and ask,they can only say no. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy B Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 talking to my fao and he said 5 years??and if you put in for land checks they probly wont do them any way unless there already on the system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Neil, You need 'good reason' same as applying for a firearm. Write a polite letter to them, outlining the reasons you have stated and see how you get on. I used plenty of ammo in all 3 calibres and came up with a couple of good reasons, and it was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 A year for me :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 1 year for me too :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 1 Year :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Why not sit it out, just for a little while and <then> get your letter in. In the meantime let some nice chap who you trust, with an open ticket that lives near you sort out any vermin/game on the permissions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Why not sit it out, just for a little while and <then> get your letter in.In the meantime let some nice chap who you trust, with an open ticket that lives near you sort out any vermin/game on the permissions? I have cosidered that. I was thinking that if I'm told I have to wait I will use that idea as a fall back. It's not going to hurt my chances to ask now is it? It just gives the FEO a good idea of what I'm planning. As soon as he feels comfortable with the idea he can get printing me a new ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) 1 year, but evidence (even in the form of a signed statement from myself - think of it as **** covering for the FLO if you do something daft - as even as crazy as it seems it will be part of what they're thinking) of several thousand rounds and stalker coaching in that year. Plus many years shooting others guns previous to getting my own certs. Edited January 28, 2008 by Oly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molhunter Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Lads...... What does having an open cert mean? As much ammo as you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Mol In reality there is no such thing as either an open or closed FAC. The slang term refers to the level of restriction placed on the FAC as a condition. It is usual for a condition to be placed on a first FAC restricting the shooter to named land and police approved ranges; this is what would be considered closed. An open FAC is less restrictive, but places the onus on the shooter to conduct their own risk assessment of the land over which they must hold the land owners permission to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Some Police Authorities always issue new FACs as 'Open' whilst others are a little more dogmatic in what they expect of their certificate holders before removing any confining conditions. If you feel your shooting is inconvenienced by your conditions you should request a revised certificate with less restrictive conditions BUT you must do so in writing and also ask for a reply in writing. If the response is still unsatisfactory take it to your shooting organisation such as BASC who will endeavor to assist you with your problem. This is, like so many aspects of the Police and Shooting, something that we as shooters feel most is unsatisfactory. But at the same time we must remember the Police have a duty to the Public at large and therefore must totally convinced that your experience/ability will not in any way endanger the public. The most unfortunate part of the whole process is that , out of necessity, it is a decision based on one person's opinion and of course a different person's opinion for each County. I would suggest that, if you have made good use of your firearms and actually have shooting available that has not been 'passed' then you should be afforded the 'open' facility irrespective of any time factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Right, yet another rant by me. This time I'm really not happy! I just phoned the firearms dept to find out if my new permission is cleared. I have to write a letter asking the question, and include a written permission slip from the landowner. What a joke, this is ********! Are they serious? Talk about a waste of time. It's on their ******* database if it's been checked, why can't they just look and tell me over the phone? They say they're over worked, it's not hard to see why is it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 lazy *******,when i had a farm assesed,i rang bridgend a week later,and they said ,hang on ill check,came back ,and said i have the letter in my hand,its been cleared up to .243,ill pop this in post for you today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 (edited) Right, yet another rant by me. This time I'm really not happy! I just phoned the firearms dept to find out if my new permission is cleared. I have to write a letter asking the question, and include a written permission slip from the landowner. What a joke, this is ********! Are they serious? Talk about a waste of time. It's on their ******* database if it's been checked, why can't they just look and tell me over the phone? They say they're over worked, it's not hard to see why is it! Welcome to the world of fac . firearms departments on the whole are very helpful, technically asking you to submit the land check in writing is the right way to do it, apart from the written permission bit. If you have been on the dog and bone a lot to them in the last few weeks its there way of telling you to turn it in. getting every thing in writing from your licensing department is not a bad thing. I have it in writing from mine saying hares are vermin. ?? firearms department are under no obligation to tell you over the phone if land is cleared. They do this as a favor. Edited January 29, 2008 by markbivvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choke it Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 as always with fac's jumping though hoops springs to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 It is quite simple - Refuse. If you request in writing and ask for a reply in writing and it is refused (which I doubt) then pass it on to BASC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 I got an open cert from the start on the 22rf and a 243 in North Yorks, but I made a good case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Hi bobt. i think good cause in north Yorkshire is. I want a gun. Its one of the better places i hear to be applying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 I have it in writing from mine saying hares are vermin. ?? Why is that Mark?? did you ask for ground game and the answer was it's covered by vermin?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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