ShaggyRS6 Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Just testing the water with this one. If I put it in sales it cannot be commented on so I thought I would stick it here as people may have advice to offer. I am very shortly to have 2 girlfreinds for Brian and I am THINGKING at this stage of letting him have his wicked way with the girls. I will then have 2 litters of Ferts. One I would like to keep for myself but theother will be available. I guess they will be £10 each but they will be pickup only. 1, I am looking to gauge what interest there is in taking them off my hands 2. Any tips or potential issues I should consider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 You would be better off getting Brian vasectomised. That way he keeps the girls happy and no kits to feed or to try and get rid of. If you want new blood then buy some in, better in the long run. If you do want a litter later on use a good hob belonging to someone else. TC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Lee, i would be very interested. If i get my hands on 2 gills as planned, i would be interested in having a hob off you. If the plann for getting these two gills falls threw, then i would be interested in 2 gills from you... if you see what i meen? R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 As usual tiercel is spot on. There are no shortage of kits available in the Spring and Summer and the average litter size is about 8, although I have had 12. Thats a lot to get rid of and I can't imagine you want to keep 8 back for yourself either. Two jills for once a week working is a good team and eventually you may want to buy a couple of young jills in to add to the group, as you increase the work for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted February 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Ok guys thanks. I will take the advice. Brian is now booked in for the 22nd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Ok guys thanks. I will take the advice. Brian is now booked in for the 22nd Lee, Just make sure the vet heard the word VASECTOMISE, not castrate as happened to my mate. TC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted February 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Will do. I did mention that he needed to be in full working order to satisfy women. I think they got the message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 One of my boys is going for the snip tomorrow, don't know which one yet SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Nice one there are far to many young ferrets being born just because a jill needs to be mated , a snipped hob is the way to go .I think you would have found out you where going to have 12/20 young from your jills which would eat you out of house and home all summer then you would have been left with most of the young hobs .The only time you should ever think about breeding is the parents are great workers and i need a replacement or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted February 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Yep good advice. 1 week to go until Brian gets it!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 I have just read this and the statistics surprised me. ( Long read but worth it. ) Vasectomised Hobs - are they all they are cut up to be?! Some disturbing news has come to light on the subject of vasectomised hobs. Firstly, it seems that there is sometimes a little confusion about the differences between a vasectomised hob and a castrated hob, and what this means for an owner and any other ferrets in the family. Secondly, it may be that using a vasectomised hob on an in-season jill is not a totally reliable method of avoiding unwanted litters, as a number of readers have reported this spring. Let’s take the differences between vasectomy and castration first. A vasectomy in a male ferret involves the severing of the ducts that transports the fertile sperm from the testicles to the penis. The ferret will still, technically, be fertile in that he is producing viable sperm. The only difference is that the sperm does not reach the penis and so mating a jill should not result in pregnancy. In all other respects, the hob will look, smell and behave as if he is an entire, sexually active male. This means he will be totally preoccupied with looking for jills in the spring and summer months; he may be aggressive to other males, and he will probably have a fairly pungent pong. He will completely willing and able to mate with jills, despite the fact that he cannot impregnate them. Castration, on the other hand, involves the removal of the testes and thus the production of the sex hormones. A castrated hob becomes sexually inactive, uninterested in jills, and loses most, if not all, of the inter-male aggression associated with rivalry for mating jills. Indeed, he is incapable of making a jill pregnant. Lack of sex hormones also leads to less smell, a cleaner coat and, generally, a ferret who is more sociable and playful with people and other ferrets. Castration does not, however, reduce working ability. Until recently, vets were more accustomed to being asked for a hob ferret to be vasectomised than castrated. This is simply because it has been long recognised that jills need to be brought out of season to avoid the risk of aplastic anaemia, a potentially fatal condition of unmated jills left in season. Since it is the act of mating that brings about ovulation in the jill, a mating with a vasectomised hob ends her season but does not result in pregnancy. The jill may go through a phantom pregnancy and, six weeks later (the end of a normal pregnancy), will usually come back into season and need to be mated again to the vasectomised hob. Problems can occur when an owner simply asks for a hob ferret to be ‘neutered’. The owner may want the ferret to be castrated, the vet may assume it is in for vasectomy. Technically, of course, mistakes like this shouldn’t happen but it has been known. Several rescues have reported owners coming to find companions for their ‘neutered hob’ only to find it was a sex-mad vasectomised hob with a lot more than a plutonic friendship on its mind! Entire and vasectomised hobs do not make easy companions for jills or other hobs during the mating season. In most cases, the situation is that an owner has requested that a hob be vasectomised because he is to be used to bring jills out of season. Indeed, most ferret welfare organisations will recommend this as an alternative to a jill jab or a permanent spay (ovariohysterectomy) operation on the jill. The caveat here is that many vasectomies can and do reverse themselves. This year, I have had five incidents reported of vasectomised hobs apparently becoming fertile. Two have been in Scotland, one in the North of England, one in the south east, and one in the Midlands. All resulted in unwanted litters. In two cases the hob was lent out to other owners as a means of bringing jills out of season, resulting in even more unwanted litters. Aside from the fact that every year there are too many ferrets and too few caring homes, there is the embarrassment of rescues who advise the use a vasectomised hob and then find that they are indirectly responsible for dozens of unplanned kits. Alarmingly, vasectomy reversal is more common than many people realise. After speaking to a number of rescues and vets, some feel the reversal rate may be as high as 70% in the two years following vasectomy. This was far higher than I had ever thought, and although we have no hard statistics for the rate as yet, it offers some indication of the number of unplanned kits born each year as a result. Why does it happen? One vet suggested that while the surgical procedure is, technically, quite uncomplicated, it is often difficult to ensure that the sperm ducts are sufficiently cut and tied adequately to be permanent. After all, you are talking about tiny, tiny, pieces of tissue. Some will re-grow enough to rejoin, and so the hob is again entire. Even if only one sperm duct rejoins, ‘firing on one cylinder’ is enough to make a jill pregnant. So what are the options for bringing a jill out of season without producing a litter? The safest and most permanent is to have your jill spayed. If you feel that you never want to breed from your jill, do please consider this. If your vet is reluctant or quotes a price higher than, say, that charged for spaying a female cat, contact your local ferret club, the NFWS or me, and maybe we can put you in contact with vets who routinely spay jill ferrets at a reasonable rate. If a permanent spay is not what you want for your jill, then a jill-jab is another option. This is an injection of a hormone which will suppress the jill’s season, usually for the whole summer, although this may depend on how early you get her injected. The price of a jill jab can vary widely, though. I have heard of prices ranging from a pound or two per jill to over £10 per jill. Again, it may be worth contacting your local ferret club or NFWS to find out what their vets charge. Some clubs have arrangements which vastly reduce costs of these injections. A word of advice, though. Some people (including myself) have had some odd reactions in jills after a jill-jab. Some lose coats, others seem lethargic, others just are generally ‘off’ for a while. In many cases this may be down to the dose of hormone being a little too generous. The standard dose of the hormone used (proligesterone) is 0.5ml per kg and many owners and vets simply register the 0.5ml as a dose. However, there are lots of jills who weigh a good deal less than a kilogram so it is worth weighing your jill and asking your vet to adjust the dose pro-rata to her weight. This may help avoid some of the minor reactions to the jab. But are vasectomised hobs a waste of time? No, I don’t think so, but we have been a bit too complacent in believing them totally reliable. There are a few golden rules to follow which may help. Firstly, if you have a newly vasectomised hob, do not allow him near the jills for at least six weeks after the op. There is likely to be enough residual sperm in his interior plumbing to make a jill pregnant. After 6-8 weeks the severing of the ducts should mean that he can no longer transport viable sperm into the jill on mating. He will be highly likely to be effective for his first year. It is from the second year onwards we start to get reports of vasectomy reversals. Here a possible safeguard is to limit the use of a hob until you are sure he is not fertile that year. This may mean not lending him out to other people until you are sure, or maybe only using him on a one of your jills at first. If this means paying out for a couple of jill jabs for others in season, look on it as insurance cover. It costs more to rear unwanted litters for 6-8 weeks than it does to pay for a couple of jill-jabs! If any of you have also had experiences of unplanned litters as a result of putting your jills to a vasectomised hob, please let me know. I, and NFWS, are interested in compiling reports to try and identify how, why and when reversals are most likely to occur. In this way, we may be able to help avoid future accidents. TC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Excellent information as always LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted February 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Yeah, some more great info Thanks T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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