AR15s and AKs

[DaveK]

If i had a pound for every time that old chestnut comes up

 

 

Better open a bank account then

[sandersj89]

I have shot Sussex Lads AR, and was on the DSC1 course with him in Scotland.

 

The look on the instructors face when it came out of the case...priceless!

 

It is one of the most accurate rifles i have shot, Brian is a very very good shot I assure you, but that rifles takes some beating.

 

Only down side for me is the weight of the thing!!!!

 

I have no problem with it what so ever in the field, it does the job very well, but I am not carrying it!

Edited May 2, 2008 by sandersj89

[Dr_Scholl]

I have shot Sussex Lads AR, and was on the DSC1 course with him in Scotland.

 

The look on the instructors face when it came out of the case...priceless!

 

It is one of the most accurate rifles i have shot, Brian is a very very good shot I assure you, but that rifles takes some beating.

 

Only down side for me is the weight of the thing!!!!

 

I have no problem with it what so ever in the field, it does the job very well, but I am not carrying it!

 

Those target model AR's are usually heavy, since weight stabilizes the gun. Mine's really light, it only weighs 6 1/2- 7 pounds when loaded.

[Wookie]

That's barely more than my old air rifle weighed! Still, I guess if you had to lug it round somewhere hot and sandy all day you'd be glad for every ounce they could shave off it!

 

We did have this debate a few months ago (sporting rifle v. military-derived rifle) and people were still divided over it. One thing we are not knocking though is Sussexlad's AR15. You just cannot argue with results like that!

[Dr_Scholl]

Remember, just about all civilian firearms started off as military weapons. And we as gun owners shouldn't fight over what guns should or shouldn't be allowed, especially when we're talking about appearance. That's the sort of thing the antis use as fuel against us.

[casts_by_fly]

dr scholl,

 

I'll address your question about red tape above. I see you're in virginia so I can relate. I'm from the states originally and moved here 8 months ago. Obviously I had a bunch of learning to do before I could bring my guns over and it has been a bit of a process. Lots of help from this forum and others (BASC especially) have gotten me though.

 

To start, there are two certificates available here, shotgun and firearms. Shotgun (section 2) is for shotguns with a magazine capacity of 2 or less. That means a double or single barrel or a semi/pump/bolt with the magazine crimped to 2 + 1 in the chamber. Firearms (section 1) is for rifles (rimfire or centerfire), high power air rifles (12 ft-lb energy at the muzzle or more), and shotguns that don't fit on a shotgun certificate. Each certificate has a slightly different process with different requirements, but there are some commonalities including the fact that you have to apply in the first place. Both require you have a securely mounted, police approved cabinet. Both will have an interview where the firearms officer comes to visit your house, check your cabinet, ad make sure you're not a nut. Both require references on your application. The shotgun cert requires one reference who is a member of the community in good standing. The firearms requires two references. In both cases the references must by UK residents and have known you for 2+ years. Additionally, for a firearms certificate you have to apply for specific calibers/cartridges and must show good need for that gun. You can't just 'want one'. You have to have a place to shoot (land) that has been cleared by the police as appropriate for that caliber. Only after you have all of the land approved and you approved, can you be issued a certificate. Once you have a certificate, you can buy the guns. For a shotgun certificate, you can buy basically as many as you can write onto your certificate and store safely. Realistically 10-15 is a practical limit before people start asking questions. For a firearms certificate you can have only the guns that are approved.

 

If you want to change guns or add another, you have to apply for a variation. Basically the police verify your need for the gun and the appropriateness for your having it. If you sell a gun you have to notify the firearms department within 7 days (as does the buyer). If a gun is stolen or if your certificate is missing/damaged you have to report it immediately.

 

Compared to the US, it is a lot more of a hassle and process here. In PA I could walk into a gun store, they do the instant background check, and I walk away with the gun. If I buy from a private seller there is no check needed, just exchange payment and be done. Shotguns are like that here (albeit more expensive) but firearms are not.

 

Timelines for granting a new certificate vary from 3 days to over a year. It all depends on which police force you are dealing with. Mine was done in 2 months (closer to 6 weeks really) but I had a special need (I needed to bring the guns from the states when I came back from Christmas).

 

Thanks

Rick

[DaveK]

Remember, just about all civilian firearms started off as military weapons. And we as gun owners shouldn't fight over what guns should or shouldn't be allowed, especially when we're talking about appearance. That's the sort of thing the antis use as fuel against us.

 

I don't think the debate is really about what we should be allowed. A fully auto in the right hands is as safe as a bolt action and a handgun is the same.

 

The debate is more about which firearm or type of firearm is appropriate for which discipline. There's no doubt that many military rifles are superb but some of us are concerned about the advisability of waving one about in public view. Rightly or wrongly.

 

It's a debate that will run and run and keep rearing its head from time to time. We all have our own views.

 

Dave

[rob13]

Why on earth would anyone want an AK. They have one purpose in life ...... to kill people.

 

you cant say this because it all depends on what type of firearm each individual person likes not what it is primarily used for so if someone likes aks they should be allowed to choose one and their only purpose is not killing people they can be used for things from target shooting to hunting to the army just like a normal bolt action rifle

[flash]

technically he is correct in saying it is made for killing people, as originally that is what the AK was designed for.

[tulkyuk]

Flash

 

So are the Accuracy International L96 sniper rifles, but i have mate who has one for stalking foxing and target shooting and a damn fine piece of kit it is too!!, so your argument is in my opinion a total load of ****

[Trussman]

:blink:

[InGen]

ya i agree. stamps are for posting things but people collect them. military jeeps were made for the military but but people buy them and drive them to work. who cares what they were made for as long as they work for what you want them to.

[J@mes]

I don't think the debate is really about what we should be allowed. A fully auto in the right hands is as safe as a bolt action and a handgun is the same.

 

 

very true, but a fully automatic weapon in the wrong hands is far more deadly than a bolt action. :blink:

[flash]

Flash

 

So are the Accuracy International L96 sniper rifles, but i have mate who has one for stalking foxing and target shooting and a damn fine piece of kit it is too!!, so your argument is in my opinion a total load of ****

mate its not an argument. i was just saying that the AK was originally made as a cheap but reliable assault rifle. i wasnt saying im against military styled rifles. would love an L96.

[mossy835]

one day we wont be aloud a pop gun.

[MM]

its all getting a bit heated in here now :blink:

[Dr_Scholl]

ya i agree. stamps are for posting things but people collect them. military jeeps were made for the military but but people buy them and drive them to work. who cares what they were made for as long as they work for what you want them to.

 

Military style rifles have become extremely popular on this side of the pond. AR-15's are the hottest selling semi-auto centerfire rifles on the market today, with the AK-47 and Mini 14 in a close second and third.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/business...amp;oref=slogin

 

Edited May 18, 2008 by Dr_Scholl

[mossy835]

yes on the farm over there i use nice rifles,but you cant use them over here,no flo over there.

[Ice]

Why on earth would anyone want an AK. They have one purpose in life ...... to kill people.

 

Correct me if im wrong but....... was it not that guns were originaly designed to kill people? :mad:

 

 

On that note, all we are using is variations

Edited May 19, 2008 by Ice

[InGen]

Correct me if im wrong but....... was it not that guns were originaly designed to kill people?

 

lol no one knows who invented the first gun so we have no idea what there were fist made for.

[gixer1]

I personally think you should use whatever you are comfortable using as long as it is fit for purpose, I can't stand all these "traditional" bulls*it comments, it's the same with semi-auto shotguns, why frown upon them??? a gun whether a full auto or single shot air gun is only as safe as the person holding it.

 

I enjoy turning up to shoot with a synthetic rifle/shotgun and wearing full realtree coveralls......simple because of the reaction of the full tweed and side-by-side brigade!!! who are they to decide what is right or wrong as long as the firearm/shotgun in question is carrying out the task in a clean humane manner.

 

To be honest I have both traditional wooden stocked weapons and synthetic modern variants and the synthetics are far more hard wearing and practical to carry around.

 

Just my opinion....

[Wookie]

I do not think that's in question. I've got two rifles, one with wood and one with a synth stock. The synthetic stock is lighter and will not warp or deform if it gets wet. It's also lighter, but part of that is due to not having a varmint-weight barrel.

 

However, the crux here is sporting v. military. Yes, rifles were designed to kill, but the similarities between sporting and military both start and converge there. Most military weapons are designed from the ground up to be automatic capable (ok, a few cases are not like this, but even the SLR started life as a full auto capable weapon) and retained a compact, ragged form. That means they can produce a lot of firepower in a short space of time and a small form factor.

 

Sporting rifles are different. Typically they are bolt action, single shot weapons designed for hunting game where, typically, large volumes of fire are not required. I do not count using AKs against elephant as a sporting scenario. Also, sniper weapons fall into this category, with the dividing line between military and civilian being very blured and also feeding off each other. That said, some military weapons have found their way across to limited sporting use. Sussex Lad has one example and Ruger make a huge amount of money from the Mini 14.

 

The fact remains that the UK is limited by both legislation and public opinion to what we can both own and shoot. We are _never_ going to be able to get somehting akin to the AR15 derivatives on our tickets in the way that our US cousins can and even the single shot versions are going to be hard to get due to the "Good Reason" clause in the ACPO firearms guidelines. If I asked my FEO to allow a single shot AK for plinking, he'd laugh in my face and then take away my cabinet. I, personally, would also feel very uncomfortable going to a full bore range with something like that. The same would not be true if I had an L96 for 600m+ target shooting as it is acceptable for the task.

 

That's more than 2 cents and most of it is rambling. Sorry!

[Dr_Scholl]

I enjoy turning up to shoot with a synthetic rifle/shotgun and wearing full realtree coveralls......simple because of the reaction of the full tweed and side-by-side brigade!!!

 

I hear ya!

 

Last year, me, my dad, and his friend Rick decided to go shooting one weekend on the Eastern Shore. The man who's land we hunt and shoot on takes rich people out on quail hunting tours. We pull up to his house when we got there( he owns 600 acres BTW)as we always do, just as he's coming out of the woods with one of his clients. This guy was from Canada, I think, and he was very old fashioned when it comes to firearms. Anyway, we pull up, get out of the truck and say hello. The guy asks me "you going to try your luck today, son?" I smile and say "yeah, sort of". Then he turns around and starts talking to Tommy( the landowner). So we proceed to take our guns out of the cases and load up.

 

The look on his face when he turned back around was priceless, to say the least. As I was standing there with an AR-15 and Rick was holding an HK91, his eyes got huge and his mouth dropped open. I honestly thought he was going to soil himself.

[stuart92]

found this .............