Another nail in the shooter's coffin - Foster shot his wife.

[al4x]

business is very different to this, most companies that go bust get re-incarnated by the ex directors its just a fact of life. Wrong but thats about it, IMHO you have to have some form of mental problem to kill the people and animals that mean the most to you. Its why if you are suffering depression etc that they don't grant firearms tickets and in cases if you have one then they take your guns away for your own protection and for those arround you. The brain is a very complicated organ and we really don't understand quite what happens when people break down under stress and the likes and do the most unpredictable things

[Evilv]

business is very different to this, most companies that go bust get re-incarnated by the ex directors its just a fact of life. Wrong but thats about it, IMHO you have to have some form of mental problem to kill the people and animals that mean the most to you. Its why if you are suffering depression etc that they don't grant firearms tickets and in cases if you have one then they take your guns away for your own protection and for those arround you. The brain is a very complicated organ and we really don't understand quite what happens when people break down under stress and the likes and do the most unpredictable things

 

I chased this argument before - depressed people don't kill everybody like this guy did. You shouldn't link this to depression. He was a sociopath. He did this because if he wasn't going to be alive, he wasn't leaving those two for other people to enjoy after his death. For the same reason, he destroyed his property and animals. They would have been repossessed and sold, his wife would likley have remarried and his daughter would have made a new life without him. He wasn't having any of that. If he wasn't going to be there, none of them were, and his wife certainly wasn't going to be having other men.

 

Is this the face of a depressed man? This was taken less than a day before the place and everyone in it was burned to the ground.

 

 

 

Are some corporate CEO’s, doctors, lawyers, politicians and scientists psychopaths? The answer could be “yes” if you use a definition which labels individuals who are often intelligent and highly charismatic, but display a chronic inability to feel guilt, remorse or anxiety about any of their actions. Tack on the use of violence and intimidation to control others and satisfy selfish needs and the label expands.

 

MORE OF ABOVE ARTICLE

Edited September 2, 2008 by Evilv

[Tommo]

Well,

 

I've just read this whole thread right the way through and l have to say my thoughts whilst with the family and for the devastation to all that was their world (thinking of the wife and daughter). I firmly believe that the husband is the influencing factor if indeed not the perpetrator.

 

Using a .22 myself l can say that even with highest velocity bullets shooting horses would be a mammoth task, not to mention dogs etc. Sub sonic's although can be heavier, quieter, are softer and don't have the punch.(I've worked around horses and one shot in an enclosed space would make the others go nuts and tear the place apart to in an attempt to escape) I think what I’m trying to say is that I’d be very surprised if they came back with a ballistics report saying everything was shot with this calibre. (this does slightly contradict my previous paragraph, but maybe he's a good shot? - l would expect to see multiple shots on the horses though)

 

I also heard that the wife had just come into 1.2mil inheritance, so perhaps she refused to bail him out? On the other side of it its not unheard-of to see people being made an example of by gangs / eastern money lenders (particularly from the old eastern block) have absolutely no tolerance for non-payers. I read a story a while back about a banker who lost a load of money for a Lithuanian businessman (UK based), the Banker was found dead with his tongue missing etc. etc.

 

Perhaps he knew they were coming? But what doesn't make sense is the horse box, from either way - if he had shot everything, situated where it was - who would call the emergency services, by the time they would arrive the place would be flat (given the straw and the house furnishings).

 

Mind boggles!

 

 

T

[al4x]

strangely the .22lr with subs has been used as a slaughtering weapon for many years you'd be amazed at the number of cattle and all sorts destroyed with it. Obviously at close range there are no problems with it.

 

Evilv you ought to have a word with the police as you must know more about depression and might be able to educate them, as they do fail to grant certificates if a person has had depression and have taken guns away when a persons doctor has suggested thay may be a danger to themselves. I know of two people in my village that have topped themselves after loosing battles with depression both were with legal guns. You'll find a lot of farmers have gone the same way.

To my mind he's got some form of mental issue / temporary insanity rather than being a sociopath. He had fought this far why give up now except something pushed him over the edge. He had a wife inherriting money, his company was still trading under a new name etc but must have been under huge stress. I used to drink with a guy who ran several very sucessful businesses and had a young family and wife he was arrested for setting fire to a number of straw stacks after being found semi concious close to one. He died in police custody and we're still waiting to hear what happened but his gp did let slip he was schizophrenic none of us knew or had any reason to think anything was up till the arrest. Personally I think there will be more to this but its debateable whether he was of sound mind

[Evilv]

strangely the .22lr with subs has been used as a slaughtering weapon for many years you'd be amazed at the number of cattle and all sorts destroyed with it. Obviously at close range there are no problems with it.

 

Evilv you ought to have a word with the police as you must know more about depression and might be able to educate them, as they do fail to grant certificates if a person has had depression and have taken guns away when a persons doctor has suggested thay may be a danger to themselves. I know of two people in my village that have topped themselves after loosing battles with depression both were with legal guns. You'll find a lot of farmers have gone the same way.

To my mind he's got some form of mental issue / temporary insanity rather than being a sociopath. He had fought this far why give up now except something pushed him over the edge. He had a wife inherriting money, his company was still trading under a new name etc but must have been under huge stress. I used to drink with a guy who ran several very sucessful businesses and had a young family and wife he was arrested for setting fire to a number of straw stacks after being found semi concious close to one. He died in police custody and we're still waiting to hear what happened but his gp did let slip he was schizophrenic none of us knew or had any reason to think anything was up till the arrest. Personally I think there will be more to this but its debateable whether he was of sound mind

 

No argument that depressed people sometimes end their own lives and might use a firearm to do it if they had one handy, but the statistics show that only in exceptionally rare cases do they harm anyone else. I quoted two kinds of situations where depressed people have harmed others yesterday, one a single mother who had been struggling with an extremely badly handicapped child for many years, jumped off a bridge with him a year or two back. She had received little help and was I think at the end of her tether. The other case was of an old gent with a beloved wife who had Alzheimer's. He suffocated her and did himself in somehow that I can't recall.

 

Depressed people in some cases, and in quite a small proportion of all those treated for depression do kill themselves. Depression is generally a disorder in which people lose motivation and just fold up on themselves. It is often connected with anxiety disorders too, where people become unduly fearful of normal life stresses.

 

Schizophrenic people kill themselves in large numbers and some kill other people too - often complete strangers. These cases naturally receive huge publicity, but they are not common. Schizophrenic people have psychotic or completely unreasonable thoughts and suspicions. They hear voices which may suggest self harm, or harming others.

 

Psychopaths are not mentally ill and are not treatable. They are people without guilt and without remorse. They know and understand the rules and they commit evil acts very often. They are completely ruthless and many of them are undiagnosed and can be extremely successful in professions and in business. They are successful precisely because they are ruthless. They are also often very clever and manage to conceal their actions for many years. They commit rape, murder and fraud in large amounts. They are quite likely to be able to get a firearms certificate unless they have been caught in their earlier crimes. There are a great many psychopaths in prison. They will stop at nothing to harm others if they are crossed. In earlier times we called these people evil or wicked. They are primarily motivated to satisfy their desires and urges, but will hold back if they fear there is a good chance they will be discovered. If they think they can get away with it, they will break any law and commit any act to satisfy their desire without the slightest guilt.

 

 

 

I think Forster was a psychopath. He was ruthless in business, was criticised by a judge for his amoral approach to his creditors (I believe he had extracted large amounts of money from ULVA and put it elsewhere leaving his creditors high and dry) and I believe we will discover that he slaughtered his family and animals in a completely ruthless manner.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Evilv

[Axe]

It may well end the way I guess we all expect it too. Its a terrible shame and a tragic loss for the families involved. Anyone capable of murder is quite obviously disturbed.

 

Personally, I won't draw any conclusions. The Police seem keen to keep things close and accurate so I wonder if theres more to this than a psychopaths rampage. The talk of this inheritance seems to throw a spanner in the works too.

 

I hope the truth can be found.

[al4x]

the wife is also down as the other company director so potentially if the directors are found liable then she is open to prosecution as well as a claim to recover money.

[Evilv]

the wife is also down as the other company director so potentially if the directors are found liable then she is open to prosecution as well as a claim to recover money.

 

That's right and in cases of misconduct, limited liability for directors goes right out of the window. If the company had acted fraudulently and the directors were involved, any money she had could be seized to compensate those defrauded.

 

By the way - that avatar of yours is most disturbing....

Edited September 2, 2008 by Evilv

[MM]

i reckon its all Munglers fault

 

 

 

 

 

 

BUT, whilst we are on the subject. this thread seems to have got us talking, and beingfriends again.

now, why has this thread got more posts and replies than the thread about the small kid killed with the air rifle?

Edited September 2, 2008 by martinmoreton

[Evilv]

BBC Five O Clock News Radio 4.

 

Police announcement -

 

We believe that Mr Foster killed his wife and daughter, fired the house and then killed himself.

 

CCTV footage shows a man that we strongly believe is Mr Foster, going about the grounds with what appears to be a rifle in his hands.

 

In the footage, outbuildings can be seen on fire.

 

We also see a man we believe to be Mr Foster driving a large horse box to block the driveway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Paraphrased from memory.

 

 

 

Elementary my Dr Morten. (Watson?)

 

 

EDIT ->

 

Later web material and video of police announcement.

 

Click Here for more info and video

Edited September 2, 2008 by Evilv

[Maiden22]

.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Maiden22

[Evilv]

i reckon its all Munglers fault

 

 

 

 

 

 

BUT, whilst we are on the subject. this thread seems to have got us talking, and beingfriends again.

now, why has this thread got more posts and replies than the thread about the small kid killed with the air rifle?

 

 

No mystery in that one, I suppose, so nothing much to speculate about or to get on a high horse either, though I did try by suggesting he should be done for manslaughter.

[Axe]

Shocking!

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7594411.stm

[InGen]

i like the way many of you its got to be this its got to be that when in truth you dont have a clue. no one does. you have no idea what went on in the house for all we know some mental guy may have done it. until this bullet cases and bullets are confirmed to be from the .22 rifle nothing can be proved.

[Evilv]

i like the way many of you its got to be this its got to be that when in truth you dont have a clue. no one does. you have no idea what went on in the house for all we know some mental guy may have done it. until this bullet cases and bullets are confirmed to be from the .22 rifle nothing can be proved.

 

 

Ha ha ha ha ha - you've obviously not been listening to the news. Click the links above.

[Axe]

I suppose the cold reality is that unless someone steps forward as a witness, we'll never really know whether he pulled the trigger or not, unless the Police find something else. I expect that given what they have found already, the rifle will turn out to be the one used and that is likely that Mr Foster did orchestrate this. The evidence so far is pretty condemning.

[roadkill]

i like the way many of you its got to be this its got to be that when in truth you dont have a clue. no one does. you have no idea what went on in the house for all we know some mental guy may have done it. until this bullet cases and bullets are confirmed to be from the .22 rifle nothing can be proved.

 

i think you will find that most of us were quite close with are predictions and check out the latest on the news

[Evilv]

I suppose the cold reality is that unless someone steps forward as a witness, we'll never really know whether he pulled the trigger or not, unless the Police find something else. I expect that given what they have found already, the rifle will turn out to be the one used and that is likely that Mr Foster did orchestrate this. The evidence so far is pretty condemning.

 

A rather charitable conclusion really - especially since the policeman making that announcement on the bbc said they saw a man they believe to be Mr Foster drive the horse box into the gateway, get out and shoot out two of the tyres while buildings burned in the background.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Evilv

[deejay]

Depression ,anxiety and stress .The root of all evil. why else would he do this kind of terrible act.

[Evilv]

Depression ,anxiety and stress .The root of all evil. why else would he do this kind of terrible act.

 

Psychopathic Personality Disorder maybe (and much more likely)? Your persistence in portraying depression as the cause of family slaughter and stranger harming in the face of evidence to the contrary is more than a little surprising. Maybe you have some kind of defiance disorder. You have after all exhibited at least four of the symptoms below in the last twenty four hours.... check it out yourself.

 

Oppositional Defiance Disorder is a psychiatric disorder that is characterized by two different sets of problems. These are aggressiveness and a tendency to purposefully bother and irritate others. It is often the reason that people seek treatment. When ODD is present with ADHD, depression, tourette's, anxiety disorders, or other neuropsychiatric disorders, it makes life with that child far more difficult. For Example, ADHD plus ODD is much worse than ADHD alone, often enough to make people seek treatment. The criteria for ODD are:

A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least six months during which four or more of the following are present:

1. Often loses temper

2. often argues with adults

3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules

4. often deliberately annoys people

5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior

6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others

7. is often angry and resentful

8. is often spiteful and vindictive

The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Evilv

[jcbruno]

i hope you guy's send the message to your government that you will simply not allow further restriction i know easier said then done it has to be a collective fight where all in the shooting comunity unite

[rabbithunter2008]

I feel very sorry for the family and the tragic circumstances that drove the bloke to do what he did but I can still laugh at a joke about it.

 

 

More to the point.

 

NOBODY MADE HIM DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And we all be happier if it never happened.

 

This is where I take issue with some people's view of what happened (in s spirit of friendly banter of course).

 

I don't belueve anything 'drove him to it', and I agree with rabbithunter on this. Nobody made him do it and he was not insane. This was the act of a psycopath - that means a person who is not mad, but behaves in a vile and unaccountable way as far as the rest of us are concerned. My take on Foster is that he is so up himself - so narcissistic in other words, that when his business schemes fail and he is about to lose the lifestyle and property that he has, decides that he will have the last laugh as far as the creditors are concerned, and will destroy all there is so that they get nothing. Now this will mean he has to go to jail, so rather than have that, he decides to kill himself, because he just HAS TO HAVE ONE OVER ON THE CREDITORS (remember the judge who took control of his assets said he had behaved without any shred of morality towards the creditors). Then finally, and worst of all, he decides to remove his wife and daughter from the world with him, not out of any protective instinct, but because he can't bear that anyone else should have them when he can't.

 

FOSTER WAS A SWINE OF THE HIGHEST ORDER.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head

[Wookie]

JC,

 

we don't really have a fine tradition of that and, as far as I can tell, we always roll over to pressure like that for fear of being labelled as similar to the person that committed the crime... Want to defend the ability to own large calibre pistols? What, you want to allow another Dunblane?

 

Mind you, even if we did all stand up and protest against any sort of restriction, it is very likely that the government would ignore it in any case. They do have a fine tradition of ignoring large portions of the voting electorate and also, frequently, good sense.

[Maiden22]

.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Maiden22

[Admiral Von Tirpitz]

What about the pet Guinea Pig, surely hit men/teams/attack squads would not kill that, unless it could talk and reveal what happened?