throdgrain Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 So anyway, I went to Horne today, and as usual said clays only to the bloke, and thought I detected a bit of a sniff off the bloke as I said it. Now maybe thats just because of all the comments on here, but it started me thinking. What do I have to gain from shooting anything else? Shoots like Horne are CPSA registered, meaning your scores go onto a database I believe (god help me ) and there's a cash prize I think, but I doubt my 70/100 today was going to win any money... So whats the point? This isnt a rhetorical question, I'd like to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 What class are you in? I have never shot Horne, but at a few reg shoots I have been to a 70ex100 would win C class. Would get a bit of wonga back in your old sky rocket at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I did learn something the other day from David Lloyd, who runs Worsley. I was talking to him about the bad feeling and snobbery about "birds only" shooting and to my surprise, he said that he also didn't approve of "birds only" However, when we got talking about it, he informed me that a lot of "birds only" shooting does allow the shooter access to the High Gun prize money and it is possible to qualify for something-or-other, even though you've only shot birds only. Despite all my rhetoric, I don't think that's right. If I shoot "birds only" I would expect it to be just that - "birds only". No access to prizes or benefits of any kind. I would defend a shooters right to shoot birds only in a registered competition, but I think it's outrageous that they should be allowed access to any prizes or other benefits. It should just be seen as an opportunity to shoot more testing targets than those available at club shooting level. I shot birds only at Catton Hall just after Christmas and my score would have won C class or come second in B class (I'm unclassified with CPSA), but I was too tight to enter so I accept that I got nothing but the experience out of it and I'm happy with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 From my understanding, Birds-only does not allow you to win prize money that comes directly from entries, however it does allow you to win sponsored prize money - ie a high gun prize sponsored by the ground or somebody else. I think you can also win county badges etc as birds only, but could be mistaken on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I've no idea what class I'm in No class I expect, I shoot birds only and I'm not a member of the club. Now, if I was a member would that automatically enter me for whatever it is? The thing about winning first prize isnt relevant, people get 98 or 99 there sometimes To be honest I really dont know how it works, would I have to be a member of the CPSA too? I'm not, I'm a member of BASC. I wouldnt mind an explaination if anyone could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) From my understanding, Birds-only does not allow you to win prize money that comes directly from entries, however it does allow you to win sponsored prize money - ie a high gun prize sponsored by the ground or somebody else. I think you can also win county badges etc as birds only, but could be mistaken on that Yes, that is now my understanding. If that is so, I suppose I can understand why there is some bad feeling. Birds only should mean birds only. If a shooter wants a slice of the pie, he should pay the full competition entry fee. Throdgrain, if you're not a CPSA member, your score will not go on any database. The sniff you got was just their disapproval of you not entering their competition Membership of the club wouldn't automatically enter you for a CPSA registered competition, only full CPSA membership would do that, otherwise, you're just riff-raaaaarff (like me) As Paulos said earlier, if you were a CPSA member, you wouldn't need to worry about the 98/99 scores, they're probably AA class. You would have a chance at winning C class or B class or whatever class you got to. Edited January 11, 2009 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 If it's a CPSA registered shoot then technically you have to be a member of the CPSA to shoot at all, unless you purchase one of their wonderful "day passes" (which no grounds do :yp: ). If you are a CPSA Clubman member or using a day pass then you can only shoot birds-only and not competition. If you are a full member then you can shoot competition and win prize money from it. For a registered shoot you do not need to be a member of the club itself but do need to be a member of the CPSA in one form or another (although it seems in this case they are allowing non-cpsa members to shoot birds only anyway...which is what most grounds do - they are not daft enough to turn away paying customers!). Registered comps pay out by class, which you gain every 6 months based on your average scores for that period. If you do not have a classification they are worked out on the day, based on certain stands or rounds shot. The money given out in each class is based on the number of entries in that particular class - so a C class shooter isnt subsidising the AA class prizefund. I hope this helps, although reading it back it doesn't read particularly well I am sure Clayman will be along shortly with a more indepth explanation of things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosspot Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Only a handfull of Horne shoots are registered, one every month or so. The majority are Open and do not rquire CPSA membership, on the fixture list look for three little letters "reg" these are the ones where by rights should only open to registered shooters and the scores go off to HQ ect. Horne seem to be holding fewer and fewer of these, for what reason is open for debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I'm more confused than ever now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 A registered shoot will state 'registered' or 'reg' and non registered shoot will normally be called 'open' Is that the bit that was confusing you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Up until a few years ago you could shoot ‘birds only’ for a reduced price. But for birds only shooters your score does not go to the CPSA for rankings and you do not get any prize money regardless of your score. This system had been going for ages and worked well – no problems were reported, and it meant that the likes of me – who would be ‘C’ class at best, could shoot where ever I liked for a ‘discount’ Now what was wrong with that? A case of if it ain’t broken don’t fix it. The CPSA made some changes, and started charging ‘birds only’ shooters a premium (which went to the CPSA!) To be honest this was the final straw for me and the reason I left the CPSA and will never go back. Not everyone wants to shoot in a competition do they? Not everyone wants to pay the competition price when they do not want to enter the competition! Unfortunately some of the competitive guys do get a bit sniffy about ‘birds only shooters – but the grounds certainly should not- after all its all income for them isn’t it? Clay shooting in the UK could not possibly survive if it was only for the serious competition shooters- there are only about 7000 of them, not ever enough to keep one ground per county open! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I seem to remember it being less to shoot B/O, but as you say clay grounds charge more for that. This sounds like 'one of those' dicussions, but I have a feeling it is to do with insurance? IIRC when we shot at Upavon they still charged less for B/O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter De La Mare Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Southdown allow non CPSA members on their registered shoots, and charge them a fiver less. Horne also do the 'day membership' for non CPSA members to shoot their registered shoots, and that costs a fiver iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Four Counties charged 3 quid for the day last time we shot a registered shoot as B/O But to be honest there are quite a few good open shoots so we only do registered ones if we are desperate, and it also means I have to remember where I put those poncy glasses I bought just for that eventuality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The 'insurance' line was/ is a red herring! Is this the CPSA trying to bring in compulsory insurance for clay shooting..no it is a smoke screen in my view for the CPSA to get people to pay a fiver so their details can go to the CPSA and the CPSA can then try to recruit those shooters- the poor old ground owner who does all the work gets sweet FA! Lets make it easier for people to take up shooting, lets not put obstacles in their way for goodness sake! D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pair away Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 a few years back at a good shoot near me , they used to run two shoots over the same course ( 75 birds only and a 100 bird reg ) this meant the serious shooters could pay extra and get a share of the profits , and the less able ( serious ) like myself could still enjoy the more difficult targets but did not have to get caught up in the " very cliky " world of the reg shooter , this all ran along well for a number of years untill the CPSA thought they were missing out on some money and put a stop to it , now you dont have a choice you have to do the 100 bird . or shoot else where ( as we do ) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 A registered shoot will state 'registered' or 'reg' and non registered shoot will normally be called 'open' Is that the bit that was confusing you? My point is, is it worth me doing , or is it a waste of my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Doing what? You have got me at it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Heh Sorry, what I mean is, and the whole point of this thread is, is it worth me not doing birds only at a clay shoot like Horne? I know its been said that they only do one registered shoot a month, yet I always get a sniff whenever I go (I may be paranoid!) and they always have a prize fund. Not that Im much bothered about winning a prize, but it would be nice to see how I'm ranked. Maybe I should join the Horne club, then do I automatically get put in the competition? The club I belong to gives reduced rates if your're a member anyway, is that the case at Horne? I know, maybe I should have asked someone on Sunday, but I didnt so I was discussing it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Heh Sorry, what I mean is, and the whole point of this thread is, is it worth me not doing birds only at a clay shoot like Horne? I know its been said that they only do one registered shoot a month, yet I always get a sniff whenever I go (I may be paranoid!) and they always have a prize fund. Not that Im much bothered about winning a prize, but it would be nice to see how I'm ranked. Maybe I should join the Horne club, then do I automatically get put in the competition? The club I belong to gives reduced rates if your're a member anyway, is that the case at Horne? I know, maybe I should have asked someone on Sunday, but I didnt so I was discussing it here No point at all (other than the experience of shooting those targets) You would need to be a (full) member of the CPSA to get anything else out of it, such as stats and classification, recorded results etc etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Chard, Surely you mean to experience shooting at "Proper Targets" I always keep a note of my scores over the year and a running average. Last year was 3110 Clays shot with an average of 84.68 birds killed. Admittedly this is mickey mouse hay bale shoots and not proper ones so it doesn't really count. If you add onto that 31 seperate £3's to give to the CPSA and probably several £100's in diesel I would expect it to drop to mid 70's percentagewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hmm, I shoot at the same targets anyway though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yes you do, the clays are the same ones the registered shooters shoot at, they get their scores gathered up and uploaded to the CPSA website, you don't. If you want to know how you got on most shoots of a reasonable size will have a results page online, or some just pinned the previous weeks results up the hut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.C. Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) My understanding is that the main reason people at a ground would be "sniffy " about someone wanting to shoot Birds Only is that it means the shooter will not contribute to the prize money the "sniffy" shooter was hoping to receive. Having been subjected to prize money cowboys who want other shooters to contribute to their pot but not get in the way of these "real" shooters I now shoot birds only on principle anyway and refuse to contribute to a prize money pot I am unlikely to win. Edited January 12, 2009 by T.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) Chard, Surely you mean to experience shooting at "Proper Targets" Obviously And your haybale potting doesn't impress anybody. You wouldn't see "George" and "Richard" (MBE, DSO, VC, DSM and bar) piddling about with such childs play. I'm surprised your average wasn't more like 99.99% Edited January 12, 2009 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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