bruno22rf Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 O.K. i may have to admit that im blind before i even finish writing this thread but somethings bugging me and i need to be educated. Every year we seem to roll over and accept more and more crippling legislation that is slowly eroding our sport to a point where it must surely, by now, be putting people off even starting to shoot as a pastime.We have become so used to being told that we have to jump through hoops that we seem to be practising jumping rather than removing the hoop.Isnt attack considered the best form of defence?-what attacks on firearms legislation are we currently . collectivley, engaged in?There are many thousands of gun owners in this country who have the ability as a single unit to challenge those who govern us.So why do we not appear to be fighting-the power limits on airguns , for example-the need for referees in SGC applications (they could be a complete nutter but if they employ a certain amount of people then they are deemed to be sound)-most restrictions on our sport can surely be challenged and, bit by bit, changed.Why are we not fighting?-what huge public campaigns are the BASC engaged in?Time and time again we seem to be moaning about the latest restrictions whilst calmly waiting for the next kick in the balls from the government-whats going on ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick O'Shea Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 This is exactly why: Everyone should be a member of a "voice" BACS, CPSA, NRA, CA, CLA, NSRA etc etc. Unfortunately, if you add up the total membership of all these organisations, and allow for the fact that some people are members of more than one ( I'm in three), you will find that less than half the gun owners, and perhaps only 20% of the "country vote" are represented. Numbers count, and when organisations go to lobby legislators and enforcers, they need numbers behind them This is one reason CPSA struggles. 25,000 people is a wimper, not a shout - and the L and E's are not interested at the suggestion there are 200,000 or more clay shooters out there. Their view will be that if only 25,000 have joined the NGB, then there are only 25,000 to worry about. Thats minority interest, so the moaners, anti's and busybodies win on the "best interest" wicket. There is also the Nationalistic problem in the UK. In clays there are the 4 Kingdom associations, English CPSA, and the Welsh, NI, Scots (WCTSA, SCTSA, UCTSA), and there are even further offshoots in Ch Is etc. So rather than one representational membership holding origination covering national interest, we have four or more. Divide and conquer comes easily to those good at it, and the fractional situation does not help us maintaining our rights. At this time, the NATS initiative is seeking to combine the memberships of several of these NGB orgaisations into a single voice, so that the voice of shooting is not fragmented into small groups - but the bottom line is, if the majority stay out of representational organisations, we will suffer at the hands of the L & Es. When-ever any one posts that they are leaving such and such an association because "they do nothing for me" I think, how short sighted! The only reason that you enjoy your sport in the way you do it because of the tireless and underfunded efforts of the various shooting bodies, and you owe it to them to support them just for the political lobby that they have, because the chances are the only reason you can go out this Sunday and do what you do is because they have been fighting your corner for as long as you have been shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 OK well if people have a suggestion how I can help these organisations, I am already a Member of BASC and what we can do working together to change the law to relax gun laws and put it in such a way as not to make it look as if we are soft on crime or appeasing criminals since this is what the panic stricken media hear when "relaxing gun laws" is talked about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 What you can do is to convince the large number of people to join the representative organiations, so that the shooting voice is larger. If the total representation held by the representing bodies was a million ( still only a quarter of all country sports partakers), then Parliament would be much more considerate to our needs. Get members into BASC / CPSA / NRA / NSRA / GNASS / CA / CLA etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 O.K. i may have to admit that im blind before i even finish writing this thread but somethings bugging me and i need to be educated.Every year we seem to roll over and accept more and more crippling legislation that is slowly eroding our sport to a point where it must surely, by now, be putting people off even starting to shoot as a pastime.We have become so used to being told that we have to jump through hoops that we seem to be practising jumping rather than removing the hoop.Isnt attack considered the best form of defence?-what attacks on firearms legislation are we currently . collectivley, engaged in?There are many thousands of gun owners in this country who have the ability as a single unit to challenge those who govern us.So why do we not appear to be fighting-the power limits on airguns , for example-the need for referees in SGC applications (they could be a complete nutter but if they employ a certain amount of people then they are deemed to be sound)-most restrictions on our sport can surely be challenged and, bit by bit, changed.Why are we not fighting?-what huge public campaigns are the BASC engaged in?Time and time again we seem to be moaning about the latest restrictions whilst calmly waiting for the next kick in the balls from the government-whats going on ? Because what you have described is the British way!! Politely moan about things but don't actually do anything about it! Its not until we're ALL backed into the same corner with absolutely no way to get out that we stand up and fight, and then we almost always spectacularly win. This is just my opinion obviously, but its something i feel VERY strongly about, but as i see it we're going to continue to get picked off one by one until ONE SINGLE shooting organisation that emcompasses ALL shooting is created and shooting gets a single, massive voice, exactly like the NRA does in the US. Sadly this is never going to happen until the petty squabbles between the different shooting fraternities (and their organisations) are resolved and from some of the arrogant/ignorant comments made that i have read, some on this site, its going to be a looooooong time. Until this happens i'm doing my bit by being a member of 3 oraganisations. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat 1 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 The CPSA seem to have some problems and this I think will affect a large number of shooters>It has been stated that there are so many various organizations<and there are>but all the clay organisations are affialated to the Cpsa including the ICPSA> There must be a very large number of members altogether and there voice if raised should be listened to>Maybe it is time for this matter to be taken in hand by those who are being represented>Sometimes when people get into positions they seem unable to get done what needs to be done> One gripe that I have with the CPSA is that they appear to represent England>Period<Scotland>Wales>N ireland and the Republic appear to be forgotten about>At least this seems to be the case when reading their Pull magazine>If they propose to be the overseer of all the associations all should be evenly treated> PAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 i agree that we need to have one body to cover all country sports - shooting, fishing, everything. until people start to realise this therell be no way forward for us, only back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat 1 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 i agree that we need to have one body to cover all country sports - shooting, fishing, everything. until people start to realise this therell be no way forward for us, only back Babbyc,I agree.I think if the countryside alliance could be persuaded to try and get all organisations together then something could be done.There seems to be a certain snobery attached to shooting especially.If I go to the grouse or regular driven days(which I could never afford) then I must be a member of the BASC.However if I enjoy a walk with my dog after the odd pigeon or take my ferrets after a few rabbits then I would be frounded upon. This snobbery must be pushed out if our sport is to survive. I think the Countryside alliance is the way to go,as they proved in the countryside march where they were able to get 1,000,000 into London.I remember the debate before this march and quite a few members of other organisations slated them for what they were trying to do.At least they tried.They refused to toe the line. Pat (This should annoy someone) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Babbyc,I agree.I think if the countryside alliance could be persuaded to try and get all organisations together then something could be done.There seems to be a certain snobery attached to shooting especially.If I go to the grouse or regular driven days(which I could never afford) then I must be a member of the BASC.However if I enjoy a walk with my dog after the odd pigeon or take my ferrets after a few rabbits then I would be frounded upon. This snobbery must be pushed out if our sport is to survive. I think the Countryside alliance is the way to go,as they proved in the countryside march where they were able to get 1,000,000 into London.I remember the debate before this march and quite a few members of other organisations slated them for what they were trying to do.At least they tried.They refused to toe the line. Pat (This should annoy someone) i agree we need to get rid of the snobbery, but id love to know how! ps basc isnt snobby (is it?!). im a member and all i normally do is go for a walk around the fields, cant afford driven days either; plus my guns are a semi auto 12ga, a pump action 12 ga, a semi auto .22 and im looking for a large calibre lever action at the mo - not a bolt action or over and under among them, so definitely no snobbery here (and if i ever bought tweed my mates would shoot me on sight) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Procrastination. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat 1 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) You probably wear camo as well.Tut,tut. Common as muck. Edited February 16, 2009 by pat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) You probably wear camo as well.Tut,tut.Common as muck. oh yes, and its not even real tree, its army surplus - and i also wear a black wooly hat... Edited February 16, 2009 by babbyc1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 oh yes, and its not even real tree, its army surplus - and i also wear a black wooly hat... That photo makes you look so manly.. Especially when the pointed bit is extended and i still think you shot that pore bloke behind you on the ice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 i swear that i never shot him! i was gonna post the pointy bit pic but ive got a really cheesy grin in it (who wouldnt be with a bayonet on their rifle??) so went for this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 i swear that i never shot him! i was gonna post the pointy bit pic but ive got a really cheesy grin in it (who wouldnt be with a bayonet on their rifle??) so went for this one I myself have a cheesy grin every time i flip out the pointy bit I will not remove it as it is a part of the rifle.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 true, i wouldnt either, nor would sergei - the most he does is unscrew the blade to go hunting. now i need to work out how to fit a bayonet to the shotgun - just doing my part to get rid of snobbery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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