.22 versus .177

[Axe]

Following on from my original poll to find out which springer I should buy, I am now faced with the choice of .22 or .177. It didnt occur to me at the time of my previous poll, but after reading some of the posts on there and other topics, i'm now starting to wonder. I will be shooting mainly Rabbits and Squirels etc.

 

Thanks to everyone that voted on my previous poll, I have decided to invest in the Air Arms TX200.

 

Please note: That viewing the results before voting will prevent you from voting at all. Perhaps the moderators could change this at some point!

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Cheers n Beers

 

Axe.

[old rooster]

I've always preffered the stopping power of the .22 in a decent gun. There are those who will argue that the trajectory is flatter and muzzle velocity higher with .177 but I'd still stick with .22 for hunting. IMHO

[dunganick]

this has been done alot, and i think everytime the concluion is 177 if you want to do some target as well, and you are a very good shot, but .22 if you dont trust your shot and want some leeway for messed up shots, but that .22 shoots like a mortar

[The Shootist]

How about the compromise calibre, .20?

I have two rifles in .20 a springer 97k and a Harrier pcp. An excellent choice for an all round calibre in sub 12 ft lb.

 

Well worth considering.

 

Regards

Tony

[Axe]

I did wonder whether to put other Caliber sizes in, but i'm looking to buy the Air Arms TX200 which only comes in the two main sizes.

 

Would you say that the .20 really is any different to .22 ? What made ya go get the .20?

 

Cheer n Beers

 

Axe

[The Shootist]

Certainly flies faster and flatter than a .22 calibre. To get the best from a .20 you really need to be using pellets in the 11~ 12 grain range rather than the heavy .20's like accupels (same weight as .22).

 

For an alround calibre it's excellent, decent impact for hunting with a reasonably flat trajectory. Doesn't do bad on targets either.

 

There's an old rule of thumb in airgunning that says you need a minimum of 1 ft lb for every grain of pellet weight. For a decent trajectory / performance.

 

At the UK 12 ft lb limit .177 falls comfortably inside and .20 just inside... .22 doesn't cut the mustard. At FAC levels though, no dispute, .22 is the way to go.

 

Just my twupence worth...

Tony

[Axe]

Thanks Tony ...thats two pence well spent!

 

Looks like I might have to re-think on th TX-200 and maybe consider a rifle in .20 Caliber.

 

Any suggestions on a good springer in .20 ?

 

Cheers n Beers

 

Axe

[The Shootist]

Well I have a Weihrauch 97k in .20 calibre. It's an excellent gun. Shoots 30 metre (32 yds) sub 13mm groups. Darn close to pcp accuracy. Probably shot more rabbits and pigeons with that in the 3 years I've owned it than any other gun. Also won a few springer HFT comps with it too, competing against .177's.

 

Weihrauch do make them in .20 so it's not a conversion but you'll have to order one as they're not generally stocked. There is a £26 premium on the price over a standard 97k.

 

I use H&N FTT pellets @ 11.42 grains.

 

Regards

Tony

[Axe]

I've got to admit, my second choice over the TX was a Weihrach HW77. A mate of mine has one that i've used a few times. Its certainly well made and the response i've had from others, is that they are built to last.

 

The extra £26 is nothing if the advantages are as good as you say. It might well be worth me ringing Air Arms to see if they would do a .20 in the TX200. The main reason I went for the TX is that the Air Arms factory is a 20 min drive from me.

 

How does the the 97 compare to the 77 ? I like the weight of the 77 being on the heavier side, I seem to get a better grouping with the heavier rifle.

 

Regards,

 

Axe

[The Shootist]

No difference between the 77 and 97 actions. Just the 77 comes with open sights and a lower comb stock. 97 is scope only, fitted with a silencer and has a higher comb to suit scope use. Weight and performance are pretty identical. Both available in .20

 

As far as I am aware the TX is not available in .20

 

Regards

Tony

Edited March 18, 2005 by The Shootist

[Axe]

Let me know where ya want the Two Pence sent, You've more than earned it buddy !!!! If ya ever in my neck of the woods, the beers are on me!

 

I'm off to go hunt down a good deal on the 97 !!!

 

Thanks once again Tony.

 

Cheers n Beers

 

Axe

Edited March 18, 2005 by Axe

[The Shootist]

Welcome mate...

 

Hope you find one, you wont regret it...

 

As an additional plus to .20 Sometimes it's nice just to be different !

 

 

Cheers

Tony

[roblade]

well my choice is and always will be .22 though you do need to be good at ranging the target before the shot LOL the way i see it if i miss he will always be there next time i hit the fields.

 

but i have used a .20 the reason i got rid of it was i just didnt have the pellets availabel in the shops localy

 

on the up side i have heard that within a few months (if not sooner) JSB will be producing some .20 pellets!!!!! (JSB suply air arms, daysate and webley with their pellets rebranded for the UK and are generaly considered one of the best pellets out there)

 

but it all depends on what the rifle is goping to be used for and how confident you are with being able to hit the target.

 

if you have any doubts at all stick with .177 generaly speakiong it has aprox half the arc of a .22. i.e. if your zeroed at 35 yards with a .177 you need to give 3" hold over at 50 yards. with .22 the hold over would be 6 inches.

 

hope this helps you out a little

 

ROB

 

PS .177 seems to be the calibre everyone is after on the second hand market at the moment so maybe this should goive you an idea of what to get. A lot are converting to the .177.

[Devilishdave]

this has been done alot, and i think everytime the concluion is 177 if you want to do some target as well, and you are a very good shot, but .22 if you dont trust your shot and want some leeway for messed up shots, but that .22 shoots like a mortar

Thats the nail on the head, if you can shoot you can obtain better results with the .177. But if you have the field craft do you need the extra range?

 

All swings and roundabouts.

 

Dave

[SNAKEBITE]

All swings and roundabouts.

EXACTLY!

 

It's like trying to choose between a curry or a kebab after a night out.

Neither is wrong and both are good

[dr_nick]

I would have to say that I like shooting both.

 

I am really looking forward to having an FAC .22 gun at approx 30ftlbs this should give me 900 ish fps which is faster than a standard .177 by at least 100fps. Then I should get the trajectory of the 1.77 with the stopping power of the .22.

 

<me = counting down the months>

Edited March 23, 2005 by dr_nick

[lander]

I use the Air Arm TX 200 HC in 22 cal......have found it to be a nice handy rifle and shoots very accurate...use it mainly for rabbit controll...dont think you will go far wrong with a TX if ya after a springer!

 

All the best

 

Lander

 

[Axe]

With all the information i've been digesting on pellet size, trajectory and rifles, i've pretty much come to the conclusion that the TX200 HC in .22 is where i'm gonna end up.

 

I was very tempted to look at the .20 Caliber but the TX isnt available in it and Pellet choice was gonna be limited.

 

What really swayed me was zeroing in the other night with the rifle that was donated to me. After setting it up at 25m I then took shoots at 20m, 15 and 30m. What I found was unexpected, the trajectory didnt alter at all, so I just kept the cross hairs centred and hit the bull every time.

 

Based on there being very little change over these distances .22 should be fine for me shooting only Rabbits etc.

 

Cheers n Beers to all that have posted on both polls.

 

Axe

[Fisherman Mike]

Forget about trajectory, flight path, muzzel velocity etc etc etc we all get too wound up about it.

 

Zero your gun at normal shooting range, in my case 35m and take some time practicing at 20, 25, & 40. and find out the hold over or under required at each range and get to recognise the range of the target in the field. Only by practice and experience will you be able to do this.

 

I get fed up with the .22 being berated as a mortar such ******** ! if you point the gun in the air off the horizontal plane maybe.

 

.177 calibre is not the calibre for Hunting rabbits UNLESS you have the experience or skill required to precisely place the pellet between the ears consistantly.

 

I would say that under field conditions when locked on many of us, including myself have not.

 

Stick with your TX in .22 if you cant get on with it Ill swap my BSA .22 Hornet for it ( Seriously )

 

FM.

[Axe]

Thanks FM, that really is how I feel about it all having looked, listened and put in to practice. Though until I get the TX ill leave 40 m well alone.

 

To help with the distance 'in the field' I plan to take visual references around the permission from certain vantage points and pace them out so i know exactly how far they are, 30 paces for me is 25m etc. etc.

 

Cheers n Beers

 

Axe

[Fisherman Mike]

To help with the distance 'in the field' I plan to take visual references around the permission from certain vantage points and pace them out so i know exactly how far they are, 30 paces for me is 25m etc. etc.

Good idea... If you want a bit more accuracy why not make up a string line with a knot or mark every 5 meters or so. You will soon get to judge distances pretty well.

 

You need to remember also that when shooting at a target perhaps from the top of a ridge or hill the effects of gravity will be less as you will be using it to your advantage. Only by plenty of practice and hence experience will you become a accomplished marksman.

 

I use a inexpensive tasco rangefinder scope on one of my guns set to a focus of 30m so by refocussing on the quarry by turning the objective lense I can read off the range. I constantly suprise myself how accurate my estimates are when checking against this.

 

You will soon pick it up and find with experience that generally anywhere a .22 pellet hits on the bonce will stop a rabbit. I have shot literally 100,s of rabbits with a.22 airrifle and did indeed try several times a .177 but more often than not the blighters were not stopped so I abandonded the .177 for hunting rabbits.

 

Good luck.

 

FM.

[lander]

Very well put FM ......the kinetic energy of a 22 has a lot more stoping power than a 177 in my opinion...I too have tryed both 177 and 22 and always will favour the 22 for stopping power

[Devilishdave]

12ftlbs is 12ftlbs whether it is .177 or .22. I nearly ****** my self in the local gun shop when I heard the son of the owner telling a woman in buying an air rifle for her son that .22 is more powerfull. If their is a risk of over penetration go for a head shot with .177 and you will kill the quarry for sure. Or better still just go for the head shot in the first place.

 

Dave

Edited March 23, 2005 by Devilishdave

[kdubya]

Now I dont profess to be an expert by any means and up till YESTERDAY my only air rifles used for bunnies were my HW100 and a daystate X2 both .22 BUT I bought an FT set up ie daystate mk1 .177 gary cane thumb hole etc stuck a scope on it and set it up at 45yds then went and tried for a couple of bunnies !whoo hoo

does it do the business now if only it a had a silencer instead of a muzzle break(to be sorted) this thing would be an over kill litterally

cheers Keith

[BOLTA]

12ftlbs is 12ftlbs whether it is .177 or .22. I nearly ****** my self in the local gun shop when I heard the son of the owner telling a woman in buying an air rifle for her son that .22 is more powerfull. If their is a risk of over penetration go for a head shot with .177 and you will kill the quarry for sure. Or better still just go for the head shot in the first place.

 

Dave

Hi,

 

Sorry, to break in.

 

You are quite right Devilishdave that 12 ft/lbs is 12 ft/lbs whether it is a .177 or a .22, no doubt about that. But normally the . 22 does have more energy left downrange and whats more important in killing it also makes a larger wound channel than .177 meaning more destruction in the quarry for a more cleaner kill if I may say so. But anyway whether you are shooting .177 or .22 you must hit the killzone correctly to get clean kills.

 

Personal I prefer .22 over .177 for any form for hunting or pestcontrol because of larger wound channel. But the question about whats best of these two calibres will continue forever as long as we only stick to sub 12 ft/lbs guns. In fact, I would say and many others would say it too that sub 12 ft/lbs guns is not the best guns to use at field work going for such quarry like rabbits, woodies, squirrels and crows. They simply don´t have the necessary power to take such quarry clean out. A FAC gun have much more killing power in this regards and where sub 12 ft/lbs guns have problems taken quarry clean out of the game a FAC gun does not have these problems. Of course around buildings, barns and other dangerous places a sub 12 ft/lbs gun would be more ideal then a high power FAC gun but at field work I always prefer a FAC gun because of the higher killing power and a little more range these guns give you.