wildgoose1uk Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Planning my first shotgun purchase - the certifiacte should be through in under 4 weeks. Thing is what type should I go for? an over and under or semi-auto. I am totally a beginner and hope to be doing a variety of shooting till I find out what I really like form clay pigeon to pigeon to rough to driven to wild fowl. I do not want to spend a massive amont on my first gun but need something which will be as happy clay pigeon shooting as with the heavier loads on the marshes wild fowling. any hints/tips greatly received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) I use a 3" chamber Escort some of the members on here will back me up when i say they are great guns for clays and just as good for rough shooting, i have the composite version which doesn`t mark like wood does, also good for firing those heavier loads that bruise you shoulder in an over under, with a semi auto you can fire them all day long with alot more comfort, also they are easier to handle in small hides etc. However..... Over unders are sometimes preferred in clay shoots due to the fact you can accurately aim your fired cartridges into a bucket, a semi auto lobs them 8ft away. Over unders are easier to clean and maintain and also to show safe. just a few key points but many more not made. EDIT - Brand new escort chambered to 3" or 3 1/2" both steel shot proofed is £295 available in camo or black or wood. 3 years warranty. There are more expensive guns as i have them but for rough shooting etc it does the job for me. Edited April 13, 2009 by CZ550Kevlar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Hi, Where can you get the wood escort for that price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Countryways at West Malling had them in when i got my black synthetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildgoose1uk Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Is that Colin's place on Norman Road and was it recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Just rang them - £375 for the black synth. and £425 for the wood Apparently the change in value of the euro is to blame Oh well - the black synth's are £299 at Doveridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Is that Colin's place on Norman Road and was it recently? Was about 2 months ago, they shifted hundreds of Hatsan Escorts last year so it wouldn`t take them long to clear the shelves of the 7 they had and need to buy new stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildgoose1uk Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Just rang them - £375 for the black synth. and £425 for the wood Apparently the change in value of the euro is to blame Oh well - the black synth's are £299 at Doveridge They also have camo for £330. Is it worth spending an extra £45 for black? This wil be a multi purpose do-everything first gun so it doesn't bother me what colour it is but I have heard stories that camo does not go down too well. What do others think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Camo semi autos can be frowned on by some clay clubs, others don`t bat an eyelid, i went with black then when i need to i just put a camo sock over it and problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 as a first gun get an over and under, while you're learning safety they are far easier and are suitable for all forms of shooting. A semi auto is fine for rough shooting and ok for clays but is a harder gun to start with and if you want a days driven or even most beaters days they are frowned on to the point where a lot of shoots will tell you to go home and get a proper gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddysteve Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 as Al4x says your best bet is an O/U for a 1st gun to get you started then build up from there My 1st gun was a rizzini O/U which was 2nd hand when i get it and still going strong now (10 years) and didnt cost a lot of money My regular gun i use is a benelli supernova pump action which is huge fun and i find really comfy but if i'm shooting somewhere i've not shot before or if invited out somewhere posh i take both guns with me and if there's any tut-tuting at the pump i stick it back in the van and grab the O/U i wouldn't even bother taking the pump to a driven day even though i'd hit more with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy33 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Save up a little cash and buy a fairly descent o/u for clays then a cheaper semi for rough, persoally i'd go for an older Beretta or browning simply because i think they're more reliable and will cycle anything you put in them. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProteuS Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 If you fancy an all rounder I think the over and under is the way to go, most versatile, and something that can be used nearly anywhere. Semi-autos are a whole lot of fun, but if you intend on trying driven as you mention I wouldn't have thought you'd be allowed near a peg with it. If i had to only have one gun it would be the over and under, not only are they a good place to start I feel alot more comfortable when out walking with others with my s/s or o/u. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warm Barrels Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) I Have both o/u and semi auto I would go for the o/u(or u/o) as a first gun if I were you SAFER for you mate. Edited April 17, 2009 by Warm Barrels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 If you're a beginner-then an O/U is probably the safest option then when funds allow get the semi.They're both good though which is why i have one of each.For pigeon shooting in a hide the semi is great cos of reduced recoil,you get three shots and you dont have to break the barrels to load so no getting snagged up,but downside is how far the spent cartridges get ejected (sometimes an impressive 15ft!).The O/U is a great all rounder though and is happy clay busting or rough shooting plus other people can see instantly the gun is safe when broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildgoose1uk Posted April 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Hmm, I still am pretty much undecided in some ways. semi's seem to have a lot going for them in terms of value for money, reduced recoil, carrying one barrell instead of two. Some people have said that o/u's are safer to start off with - if someone could elaborate that would be great as I don't understand why that would be so. As far as I can see both are safe, the main difference being that it is easier for others to see that the o/u is safe as it is broken wheras the semi auto would be flagged in the same way that rifles are shown safe. It does seem to be true though that some driven days ban semi's. I do like the style and looks of the quality o/u's but the semi does seem tohave some strong advantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 (edited) I've not posted on this thread because we seem to get the same thread 2 or 3 times a week. However, the pros and cons are pretty much that if you want to go driven pheasant shooting with a semi, well, you pretty much cant. I have zero interest in that so it's not a problem. If you want to do pigeon shooting, an extra shot is an advantage. For clays it's much the same between the two styles of gun. The comment about safety comes to the age-old "is it unloaded" question. I confess that irritates me a bit, but bear in mind there's some people who will not be told, no matter what. They are convinced that semi-autos are more dangerous and there's nothing you can do to change that, so it's probably best simply to ignore them. In three or four years of only shooting pumps and semi-autos for clays I've only ever encountered one person in real life prepared to venture that opinion, though loads on the internet ... However the "is it unloaded?" question is a valid point. You need to make sure it is. For others reassurance you need to use a breech flag at all times. Of course when clay shooting this is a lot easier than you'd think, as of course you always load 2, no more. But always check, and always bung that flag back in. I personally think that a sling on a semi/pump is very useful, as not only is it easier to carry but then other shooters, even far away, can see that the gun is not pointed at them, in a similar way to a "broken open" double barrelled gun. Then when your fellow shooters get closer they can see the flag anyway. However slings are banned at registered CPSA shoots, go figure ... Me I think a pump is safer still, as you can see the slide is back and that the gun is unloaded easier, and that it cant be fired with the slide back anyway. Edited April 18, 2009 by throdgrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildgoose1uk Posted April 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 Looking like unless I intend to go on driven shoots then it can be either but for driven shoots I will need an o/u. It seems a pity to be forced down one particular route because of tradition. I guess like some have said the answer is to go for both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 Interesting point you make about tradition.... I 'occasionaly' get my leg pulled about using an O/U as a SxS is more traditional for driven game (although is the accepted norm now). Semis just have an air of 'the cowboy' about them in some circles (sadly that is still an overt attitude at clay grounds too!) but as pointed out above I would much rather be shooting with a safe shot and his (or her) semi than an unsafe shot with any gun.....! It is much more sociable to shoot with a breakable gun as it does relax everyone around you, and I prefer guns one our shoot to carry guns out of slips and broken than in slips (a loaded gun in a slip can still discharge.......!). If you intend to most of your shooting solitary then it matters not one jott what you get. I would say tho' for your own 'ease' of socailising and provinf to others that you are safe an O/U to be used in company of others is the best way forward for your 1st 'allround' gun. BTW I have both..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinxy72 Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 id go for the escort semi m8 .... buy it , enjoy the different shooting you wanna try, then buy another gun if needed. . . trust me after wildfowling you will find driven shooting boring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildgoose1uk Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 id go for the escort semi m8 .... buy it , enjoy the different shooting you wanna try, then buy another gun if needed. . . trust me after wildfowling you will find driven shooting boring Wildfowling is one of the things I would liek to try. I have been told it is better to have a dog though - What do you think? does a dog make a massive difference? Looks like you are not too far from me - where do you shoot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 I on the other hand wouldn't buy an escort, cheap gun but can give a lot of hastle rather than buying a secondhand beretta or browning which will give years of service. The safety aspect is a visible aspect, when you're in company with an over and under broken you can see its unloaded and if you're standing round chatting etc then you don't have your barrels pointed at other peoples feet, the vice versa is you can see other peoples guns are unloaded. If you're on a walked up day its far easier to unload an O/U to cross fences / ditches and far easier to load again. You need to go on a driven shoot to appreciate the tradition issue lots of people here haven't been near one hence why we get the slating of snobbishness etc they just don't understand why its nice to dress up for a days formal shooting, usually its the same culprits who blast pheasants like they're vermin while pigeon shooting etc or with air guns. Semis are pretty clunky objects and are a pain to empty the chamber regularly which you need to do on most rough shoots but as said do have their part with pigeon shooting. My advice is get a half decent O/U to start then if you start doing much vermin work buy a semi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildgoose1uk Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Beginning to wonder if I should buy both! Good arguments for both options abound and I can see it will not be an easy decision. I do however have a few thoughts: If I want to get involved in sport like wildfowling then I need a gun I am not too bothered about bruising and one that therefore does not cost too much. Either an old o/u or a not so old semi auto. Semi's seem to have made large strides in recent years so an old semi may not be the best option. Also not to sure what condition a Beretta or Browning would be in if I paid under £400. The Escort wins here I think EXCEPT I would want one that would handle all the loads I may need including for goose and the 3.5 inch does not get such a good write up. Maybe a Mossberg? I know they take more looking after than an o/u but in anothe rlife I learned to strip and clean SLR's so I don't see it as a problem. Driven shooting: No doubt an o/u is the only option here Social/networking/making friends: Whether rightly or wrongly the o/u seems to win here too. Semi users seem to have a bit of a reputation as cowboys however undeserved and o/u's whislt not opening doors to this may get through doors that semi's would be closed to. Safety: This is where I have the biggest problem and is tied in with the preceeding argument. Safety is not inherent in the gun but in the holder. An unsafe shooter is an unsafe shooter and should not have a ticket. It should be reasonable to assume that a gun is not loaded when it should not be loaded. That is not to say you want it swung in your face but the assumption should be that it is safe whereas the assumption seems to be that unless it is broken or bagged it is not safe (actually bagged is not necessarily safe anyway). With a rifle you just do not point it at anyone whether loaded or not and if unloaded it is flagged. Why should shotguns be different from rifles? It owuld seem that practically speaking the semi wins whereas socially speaking the o/u wins. I shall probably in time get both...... the o/u's do have a certain presence and quality that I like that a semi for field use would not have. hmmmm.... or will I just wait till I get to the shop and get swayed by what he tries to sell me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinxy72 Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) i have the mossberg semi-auto for wildfowling and its a beast ... BE WARNED .... it doesnt like any loads below 34g !! the importers have them on offer at a good price at the minute ... saddelry and gunroom and it aint too far from you Edited April 23, 2009 by jinxy72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 the main difference with rifles is you don't tend to shoot them in company, you need to try a semi and see how fun it is to unload it which you do regularly on driven or rough shooting, an over and under you break it cartridges out job done. When you're talking to someone face to face as you do on a social shoot with your gun under your arm an O/U doesn't point at the other persons feet. I cannot have a conversation with the holder of a semi in the same way even if I know its unloaded. I also wouldn't bother with a pump they sound good but odds are you won't shoot well with it and cycling the next shot isn't good for speed or accuracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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