What is it?

[Steveo]

Last year my friend was out decoying pigeons and when they got the bag home to clean out the birds he noticed that some of the birds were as normal but were missing the white wing bars and white ring on their neck. They also seemed a bit slimmer than normal woodpigeons. He said they were scottish pigeons??? I think they were rock doves? Didnt think we got those in NI! Any one got any ideas???

[TX Sniper]

could be squabs but it seems awfully early.

[Steveo]

This was shooting over cut barley autumn last year! By squabs im guessing you mean young pigeons but i dont think thats what it was.

We all laughed when he said scottish pigeons, and the nearest thing i can find are rock doves.

Theyre exactly as 'normal' woodpigeons with out any white bars or rings.

Any help would clear up a long running argument.

[hill billy]

i think they are just squabs mate because wood pigeons don't grow the white fethers until they are a year old i think another way to tell is to feel there feet because they will have very soft feet hope this helps

[Teal]

I think they are rock/stock pigeons/doves I shot two at the Clandeboye estate in northern ireland a while back (mistaken for woodies when roost shooting). Where abouts in NI are you?

[Steveo]

Im in Portglenone near Magherafelt. When it comes to the barley time this year i will ask them if they have shot any more and take some photos.

 

Do you know of any sites with pics of rock/stock doves or squabs!

 

This has been a hot debate point with my mates. One says they are scottish woodies so when we finished laughing at him we argued but i thought the same as you with them being doves. It is very possible they are young pigeons because they were the same colour of grey as 'normal' woodies.

[Highlander]

Better hope that they weren't Rocks or Stocks as shooting either is illegal in the UK which I guess includes NI. These days it's difficult to say 'out of season' or 'too early' for young woodies as they seem to breed in just about every month and the full adult plumage (white neck rings being the last) doesn't come on for some time. Young woodies are also thin and underdeveloped compared to the adult bird so lets hope that's what they were. As for Scotish pigeons...were you shooting with the Big'Un???

 

If you want pics for recognition purposes try here http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/guide/ but don't you dare go joining or spending any money with 'em.

[M ROBSON]

A Rock Dove is just another name for a Feral Pigeon and can be shot.

 

If they had no white on the wings they would have been Stock Doves (protected) as young woodies lack the neck dot but still have partial white bars on their wings.

Stock Doves flight slightly faster than a woodie, similar to a feral, and have two small dark bars near the wing base.

 

Mark.

Edited May 3, 2005 by M ROBSON

[Highlander]

"A Rock Dove is just another name for a Feral Pigeon and can be shot."

 

Oh boy M ROBSON are you soooooo wrong (£2000 and loss of licence wrong). AND another thang...did you know that shooting a feral with a leg ring on is also illegal. Ever tried shooting one while gazeing at it's legs through binos???

[M ROBSON]

The only "Scottish" pigeon your mate might be getting confused with are woodies that migrate over here from Scandinavia in the winter. They group up in huge flocks and are identical to our residential birds but are slightly smaller. it's possible you could see them in N Ireland during very hard weather.

 

Mark.

[M ROBSON]

Highlander,

 

I'll embarass you with your own link!!!!!

 

http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/guide/r/rockdove/index.asp

 

Look at the second line and tell me what the Rock Dove is Also Known As

 

Appology please!!!

 

Mark.

Edited May 3, 2005 by M ROBSON

[M ROBSON]

Also,

Shooting Ferals is perfectly legal weather they have a ring on their leg or not.

 

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/shootingseasons

[Highlander]

OK in this instance I'm embarassed BUT I was simply using the RSPB site for the pics (won't do that again!).

 

However I'm sticking to my guns...If you want detailed info regarding what we can and cannot shoot in the pigeon line then take a look at the BASC code of practice http://www.basc.org.uk/content/woodpigeonpractice. Quite frankly (in my humble opinion) anyone on this site (who's a genuine pigeon shooter) should be aware of these facts.

[Catamong]

Sorry MR, but Highlander is correct, and the RSPB site is wrong.

 

A Rock Dove is a seperate species, and should not be confused with the manky flocks of winged rats that are proper "ferals".

 

To quote from the "Complete Book of British Birds", published by the AA / RSPB ;

 

"True Rock Dove now restricted to Northern Coasts & Isles.....Underwing white, unlike Stock Dove. Domestic birds gone wild (feral), often look very similar, reverting to this type on cliffs"

 

They are also protected, so full marks to Highlander for pointing this out.

[M ROBSON]

HH,

 

I have read in several bird books that these are genetically the same species, long before I noticed it on the RSPB website that Highlander posted. Today was the first time I had looked at their site.

 

The Rock Dove is the wild ancestor of what we now know as the Feral Pigeon. There are small pockets of these birds left in the remote wilds and they may well be protected, but how do you prove them apart when they are genetically identical? It is more a race issue not a species issue.

 

Mark.

Edited May 3, 2005 by M ROBSON

[Catamong]

I would imagine that most self respecting Rock Doves would not like to be seen alongside modern "Feral" pigeons - I don't know what it's like up in Bonny Scotland, but down here just north of London, we get vast flocks of ferals, even more since our dear London Mayor Red Ken has banned the feeding of them in Trafalgar Square..!!

 

I can't honestly say that i've ever seen a Rock Dove - if you read the book "Pigeon Shooting" by Richard Arnold - he shows a photo of one and describes shooting them - I would imagine that they area much more noble bird than these city outcasts that we are plagued with.

 

I rarely shoot them, as they're not worth the price of a cartridge.

[M ROBSON]

We've had some great sport shooting ferals over decoys up here, 100+ days are quite possible and they can prove quite a sporting target. Most of our ferals live in barns on farmyards and can cause a lot of mess, I suspect they're a bit more wild than your city birds.

In the last few years I've actually seen several woodies nesting in hay/straw barns alongside ferals.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Dove

 

Mark.

[Catamong]

Mark,

 

On the odd occassion that we do shoot them, they are very often incredibly stupid, and will frequently come back to the deeks if shot at and missed.

 

I reckon it's the inter breeding that makes them that way.

[Steveo]

Thanks lads.

I think they were rock doves but still not sure but if any get shot this year i will know better!! Now i know for definite the 'scottish pigeon' theory is a bit stupid!!!

[Highlander]

I've seen Rocks on Lewis/Harris but never anywhere else. If decoying woodies ferals are pretty stupid and will come back to the decoys after being shot at (IF they're missed ) but we generally airgun them at night in barns with a lamp. After a while they seem to know what's going on. I've had the smarter ones hiding behind their mates or crouching down so's you can't see them.

[Fisherman Mike]

Sorry MR, but Highlander is correct, and the RSPB site is wrong.

 

A Rock Dove is a seperate species, and should not be confused with the manky flocks of winged rats that are proper "ferals".

 

To quote from the "Complete Book of British Birds", published by the AA / RSPB ;

 

"True Rock Dove now restricted to Northern Coasts & Isles.....Underwing white, unlike Stock Dove. Domestic birds gone wild (feral), often look very similar, reverting to this type on cliffs"

 

They are also protected, so full marks to Highlander for pointing this out.

Quite right the RSPB site is incorrect Rock Doves are a seperate species and not exactly widespread...being mainly coastal birds.

 

I suspect if the Pigeons were not squabs they would be Stock doves which are also very similar without the white bars and collar and more widespread. True Stock doves are some times difficult to distinguish form a woodie in flight and can be accidently shot.

 

FM.

[M ROBSON]

FM,

 

Rock Doves are NOT a seperate species!!

 

They are a seperate race of the same species as the Feral Pigeon.

 

 

For instance: there are two races of Greylag Geese, the Eastern(Siberian) and Western (Icelandic)

 

I suspect that many years ago a pair of Rock Doves were captured from the wild and bread to produce the first of what are now Feral Pigeons.

 

Mark.

Edited May 4, 2005 by M ROBSON

[Highlander]

Hey hold on guys lets not get too aerated over this...the fact remains it's illegal to shoot Rocks and Stocks but it is legal to shoot ferals. Just need to identify your quarry species is all (preferably before you shoot them ).

[M ROBSON]

Highlander,

 

If you look at what a true Rock Dove looks like you will often find birds amongst Feral Pigeon flocks that are identical, yet they are classed as Feral Pigeons not Rock Doves.

The only way of seperating them is location and even that can be a grey area. A feral Pigeon walking along Fort William high street can look identical to a Rock Dove nesting on the cliffs a mile outside the town.

 

 

Mark.

[Cranfield]

I think these are the birds I have always heard referred to as "blue rocks" and its a term I use.

But, they are really stock doves.

 

It would be very difficult for an experienced shot to confuse them with feral birds.

 

Their behaviour is different to ferals, as they are rarely in groups of more than five (usually singles or pairs) and they tend to be "nervous" fliers and feeders.

 

I don't shoot them, as I know they are protected.