SHOT'S IN THE DARK

[Alpha Mule]

its got nothing to do wih applying for your fac, its common sense - ricochets can go in any direction (tho normally not the direction youre shooting in i find), i had one earlier today that came back past me. and when did i say ricochets were pleasant?!

 

ricochets and .22lr's go hand in hand. if you want to totally cut out any risk from ricochets then no-one should be shooting a 22lr within 1km of a town, house, road, foot path - basically anywhere that theres the possibility of a ricochet doing damage, not just a camp site. and how many people do that?

 

im sorry, im not being flippant here, but thats just the way i see it.

 

edit - should also add that as well as houses, towns, etc, livestock should be included too then...

 

Hmm, I think we are going to have to agree to differ here.

 

I doubt saying something along the lines of "sorry mate I didn't mean to shoot your kid playing in the school playground. It was a rocochet and who accounts for them eh?". Intentional or accidental, I'd expect to be spending a serious amount of time in the big hotel for that one.

If I pul the trigger, the projectile is my resonsibility until it's safely or otherwise stopped.

[Blackbart]

Not having a pop here but there were several shots fired (safely presumably) and the quad stopped several times before a stray zinged in your general direction. Was it obvious there is a campsite there? If you had a quiet word the next day that sounds realistic if the bullet genuinly zinged in your immediate vicinity, but are you absolutely sure the sound didn't carry the zing a bit like it did the phut?

 

I dont know if the shots were fired safely or not but i do know the zinger came from infront of me and travelled(still zinging)behind me and over or into the campsite.

 

They would have deffo known there was a campsite there as i am not talking a farmers field site.It holds about 100 tents and a 100 caravans,toilet blocks,lamp posts,shop reception etc etc so you would notice it i think.

[gixer1]

its got nothing to do wih applying for your fac, its common sense - ricochets can go in any direction (tho normally not the direction youre shooting in i find), i had one earlier today that came back past me. and when did i say ricochets were pleasant?! B)

 

ricochets and .22lr's go hand in hand. if you want to totally cut out any risk from ricochets then no-one should be shooting a 22lr within 1km of a town, house, road, foot path - basically anywhere that theres the possibility of a ricochet doing damage, not just a camp site. and how many people do that?

 

im sorry, im not being flippant here, but thats just the way i see it.

 

edit - should also add that as well as houses, towns, etc, livestock should be included too then...

 

 

I kinda agree with babbyc here, if we were to go to extremes we shouldn't be firing a 22lr within 1 km of any of the above, and to be honest i doubt anyone with a 22lr on this site obeys that rule.....

 

and usually i find the noise is nowhere near as close as it sounds...if he knew it was a populated site then it probably wasn't the best of ideas but as babby said if it was 1/2 a km away would you still be as miffed?

 

Gixer,

[Blackbart]

If the shooter was 1/2 k away and the bullet flew over my head i would still be miffed,but he wasnt,he was in the adjoining field.Also i dont think you can compare a town or a housing estate with a load of tents in a field.How many houses do you think a .22 bullet will travel through before it hits someone ?And then do the same comparison with a line of tents ?

I know babby keeps saying he isnt being flippant,but by saying .22's and ricochet's go hand in hand so it is not the shooter's fault IS being flippant.

I think some people think that the bloke is a fellow shooter so i shouldnt have said anything and are looking at it through blinkered eyes,but it is things like this that give all fellow shooters a bad name and hopefully by having a quiet word the shooter will be more carefull, as opposed to saying/doing nothing and the real possibility of someone getting shot.

[al4x]

BB you're entirely in the right and Babby don't often say this about your posts but you're talking tripe. .22lr's ricochet its a fact so you don't shoot in the direction of people or houses its common sense and something which if you don't do you'll end up either killing or injuring someone or damaging property and loosing your license. I won't use the round as our land is too populated and I can't enjoy shooting waiting for the zing.

BB you did the right thing and I would guess the shooter knew what he did so will hate having it pointed out, hopefully enough that he won't do it again.

I had some **** shooting round me the other day with an airgun and could hear the pellets overhead and its not pleasant. In my case I left it but had he got any closer the mod was coming off the .223 and I'd have let a round off no where near him but it should have been enough to point out my location.

[Westcountryman]

If he is shooting within range of ricochets hitting a camp site, maybe he should use a less bouncy round? Fair enough that .22 LR will bounce around a bit, but if there is a field, near where you shoot and people are likely to be in it regularly, some time to change to something more suitable.

 

Speak to the campsite owner and he will deal with it and refund you aswell.

 

The way the situation is described, it sounds like down town Baghdad, how many rounds were actually coming at you?

Edited August 24, 2009 by Westcountryman

[Ozzy Fudd]

BB you're entirely in the right and Babby don't often say this about your posts but you're talking tripe. .22lr's ricochet its a fact so you don't shoot in the direction of people or houses its common sense and something which if you don't do you'll end up either killing or injuring someone or damaging property and loosing your license.

 

i NEVER said i shoot in the direction of people or houses, far from it, so dont be putting words in that arent there!!! B)

 

what i DID say, was that ricochets can go in any direction, and normally not the direction youre shooting in (i find) so if everyone was being so totally safe as theyre trying to say then they shouldnt use a .22lr within 1km of anything that could be damaged - even if theyre shooting in the opposite direction!!!!!!

[al4x]

You did say though who plans for ricochets and with a LR thats vital. I gave up using one as I hated that zinging noise that much, we had a grass field we used to shoot and bearing in mind we shoot off a pickup so relatively steeply into the ground they were still bouncing, we had a corrugated Iron straw barn we could use as backstop and all you got was zing bang really disconcerting. In this case if the rounds were carrying over the campsite thats a serious boo boo and the shooter should be aware its there and not using an innapropriate caliber. Or one that shouldn't have been shot in that direction

[Ozzy Fudd]

You did say though who plans for ricochets and with a LR thats vital. I gave up using one as I hated that zinging noise that much, we had a grass field we used to shoot and bearing in mind we shoot off a pickup so relatively steeply into the ground they were still bouncing, we had a corrugated Iron straw barn we could use as backstop and all you got was zing bang really disconcerting. In this case if the rounds were carrying over the campsite thats a serious boo boo and the shooter should be aware its there and not using an innapropriate caliber. Or one that shouldn't have been shot in that direction

 

i didnt mean who plans for them as in "wow i never saw that coming", i meant how can you plan on something that you dont know if/when itll happen, or what direction itll go? yes, i try to keep to areas where very little damage would be dont by a ricochet, but as i said, nowhere really is safe when it comes to them B)

[kennym]

Another vote for the shooter been an irresponsible d1ck,....

 

We all need to protect our sport and its people like him and (sad to say) babbyc's flippant attitude who get us a bad name ......

 

What possible good can come of shooting close to a campsite & causing possible fatal injury's to whoever......

 

We as shooters have a duty to ensure the safety of ourselves and others.. we should choose our shooting carefully and use the most appropriate of the many different options available to us.... air weapons, FAC air weapons, .17hmr all of which don't ricochet as much as a .22lr

 

blackbart didn't over react and did the right thing...... without making a fuss he hopefully avoided anyone been injured in the future by talking to the land owner

 

I cant believe any one on this forum would think differently....... but...... we all have the right to our individual opinions ...... I suppose

[Ozzy Fudd]

right. i do not have a flippant attitude. this is quite simple. or am i using words that are too big for some people here?

 

22lr's ricochet. its not something that you can plan for, but something you should remember.

 

HOWEVER

 

if everyone is so worried about them as they are trying to say they are, then no-one should be shooting within 1km of a road, house, town, right of way, livestock or really ANYTHING where theres a danger of a ricochet hitting something. yes, a ricochet could go through 10 tents, but it only need to hit one person walking through a housing estate or walking their dog to create a fatality.

 

and how many people here do that - shoot 1km away from anything?

 

im not being flippant or unsafe. what im simply saying is that you can only cover so many eventualities, however to cover EVERY eventuality will be nigh on impossible. sorry, ive tried to use less complicated language, so maybe people will understand what im saying this time... B)

Edited August 24, 2009 by babbyc1000

[Heladoxa]

To Babbyc1000

 

Not simple enough. Too many conflicting words. Are you saying that .22's are OK, and a ricochet is an unfortunate, but acceptable to you, by-product?

 

What happened to the rule, 'Don't take the shot if you haven't a solid backstop?

 

Put it another way, if your unfortunate ricochet hit my kid for the sake of a rabbit, I would take you apart with my bare hands

IS THAT VERY CLEAR AND SIMPLE?

[Ozzy Fudd]

To Babbyc1000

 

Not simple enough. Too many conflicting words. Are you saying that .22's are OK, and a ricochet is an unfortunate, but acceptable to you, by-product?

 

What happened to the rule, 'Don't take the shot if you haven't a solid backstop?

 

Put it another way, if your unfortunate ricochet hit my kid for the sake of a rabbit, I would take you apart with my bare hands

IS THAT VERY CLEAR AND SIMPLE?

 

nope, its not.

 

when did i ever say anything about not having a solid backstop? NEVER.

 

what im saying, and what everyone seems to be ignoring, is that ricochets can go off in ANY direction - as other shooters have attested (and i myself have experienced) they can come back RIGHT BACK AT THE SHOOTER.

 

ok. i will simplify even further.

 

RICOCHETS CAN GO OFF IN ANY DIRECTION IN RELATION TO THE ONE THEY WERE INTITIALLY FIRED IN - EVEN IF THE GUN IS POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION, AT A SAFE, SOLID BACKSTOP. THEREFORE, IF THE MEMBERS OF THIS SITE ARE AS WORRIED ABOUT RICOCHETS AS THEY SUDDENLY SEEM TO BE, THEN .22LRS SHOULD NOT BE USED WITHIN 1KM OF A LOCATION WHERE A RICOCHET COULD HIT SOMEONE - BE IT A HOUSE, A ROAD, A FARM, ANYTHING.

 

is that simple enough? stop getting worked up and think about what im saying for a minute.

[Guest]

I understand what you are trying to say Babby, you are right that you should plan for ricoches but you cannot plan 100%. However I do think that the shooter was in the wrong to be shooting that close to the capsite. I mean if he was in the next field, how close is that? 50, 100, 200M?

[Blackbart]

I would think that 99 out of a 100 .22 ricochets that happen on a field will travell roughly in the direction that they were fired.So i dont agree that they can go anywhere.

If i shoot at a dry stone wall then maybe it can go anywhere but not grass.

[kennym]

babbyc you are indeed a self righteous man with a very high opinion of your self,

 

Until now I have always been able to ignore your silly posts but showing such disregard for our sport & using silly points to support your perverse argument just tipped it for me

 

The majority of your post reveal your true nature,......... you talk about drinking, bucking the system and generally been ....... well foolish...... surprisingly you seam to thinks such behavior actually enhances your persona

 

I hate to be personal....SO...... to contradict myself ..... I'm actually sorry for that.....you must learn some times its best to say less because you can't seriously believe the argument your trying so hard to win

 

OK so think of that what you will....... but I'm not gonna get into a slanging match with you.......like I say your entitled to your opinion

[Ozzy Fudd]

babbyc you are indeed a self righteous man with a very high opinion of your self,

 

Until now I have always been able to ignore your silly posts but showing such disregard for our sport & using silly points to support your perverse argument just tipped it for me

 

The majority of your post reveal your true nature,......... you talk about drinking, bucking the system and generally been ....... well foolish...... surprisingly you seam to thinks such behavior actually enhances your persona

 

I hate to be personal....SO...... to contradict myself ..... I'm actually sorry for that.....you must learn some times its best to say less because you can't seriously believe the argument your trying so hard to win

 

OK so think of that what you will....... but I'm not gonna get into a slanging match with you.......like I say your entitled to your opinion

 

sorry, i didnt realise using common sense was wrong, which is what ive been trying to do here. its nice to see you can win an argument without resorting to personal insults... its funny, i dont remember, bucking the system much, nor do i remember being foolish. drinking, yes, so what? what has drinking got to do with anything?!

 

and yes, i am entitled to my opinion, thank you, and ive stated mine here, and ill leave it at that

Edited August 24, 2009 by babbyc1000

[kennym]

sorry, i didnt realise using common sense was wrong, which is what ive been trying to do here. its nice to see you can win an argument without resorting to personal insults... its funny, i dont remember, bucking the system much, nor do i remember being foolish. drinking, yes, so what? what has drinking got to do with anything?!

 

and yes, i am entitled to my opinion, thank you, and ive stated mine here, and ill leave it at that

Thats a shame I was genuinely replying to your post...... BEFORE THE EDIT..... to congratulate you on your classy answer which I could do nothing but agree with..................that was short lived as your edit popped up.....

 

I was not trying to win an argument....... as to me, I was mealy making obsevations....... yes personal insults are unnessasary........more so if they are meant vindictively or to offend or stir up trouble ......... nothing I said was meant in that way

[Guest]

Yeah babbby don't worry about peopel like that, as you know from my personal experience I have come across a number of peopel on this forum where even though you try to reason with them, they think you are saying exactly the opposite. I mean the guy is trying to insinuate that you are or would be unsafe with a gun and that is just rubbish.

[Ozzy Fudd]

Thats a shame I was genuinely replying to your post...... BEFORE THE EDIT..... to congratulate you on your classy answer which I could do nothing but agree with..................that was short lived as your edit popped up.....

 

I was not trying to win an argument....... as to me, I was mealy making obsevations....... yes personal insults are unnessasary........more so if they are meant vindictively or to offend or stir up trouble ......... nothing I said was meant in that way

 

yes, finger slipped before id finished typing.

 

so typing this wasnt meant vindictively or to offend, or to stir up trouble?

 

 

"babbyc you are indeed a self righteous man with a very high opinion of your self,

 

Until now I have always been able to ignore your silly posts but showing such disregard for our sport & using silly points to support your perverse argument just tipped it for me

 

The majority of your post reveal your true nature,......... you talk about drinking, bucking the system and generally been ....... well foolish...... surprisingly you seam to thinks such behavior actually enhances your persona"

 

 

as i said, ive tried to state my opinion (which i am entitled to) in this thread, and tried to use common sense, something i find is not in abundance on this site. because of that i have been villified, insulted, accused of things i have never said, and have subsequently resorted to repeating myself and simplifying each post to try and get my point across.

 

thank you.

[Shuck.]

I would think that 99 out of a 100 .22 ricochets that happen on a field will travell roughly in the direction that they were fired.So i dont agree that they can go anywhere.

If i shoot at a dry stone wall then maybe it can go anywhere but not grass.

 

Sorry I must disagree, ricochets are mathematically predictable, granted, not in any practical application when we're talking about the round striking and reflecting against a pebble in the grass or hard soil mounds, etc.

Depending on the angle of impact, using said grass mound for example, the ricochet could end up anywhere in a 3-D/360 degree angle, like a game of extremely high speed Pool. Ranging from curving left/right/upwards or returning in the direction of the shooter, and so on.

 

Such a mound in the backstop would be invisible head-on from the shooter's eye, so the use of a suitable backstop isn't really in question, as if the round was indeed heading in your direction on its initial flight, you wouldn't have heard it coming

 

 

I dont know if the shots were fired safely or not but i do know the zinger came from infront of me and travelled(still zinging)behind me and over or into the campsite.

 

I'm not trying to pick apart your post, but were you actually in the campsite? In this post it gives the impression that you only heard the ricochet, and as already said maybe the wind carried the sound over your head? - Maybe it's just a spelling error, sorry.

 

Other then that though I think you handled the situation well, in regards to having a quiet word and not raising alarm as it could possibly be a worry over nothing.

 

One last point, you say that this campsite is a very obvious site.. to the campers. As you say; it was around 11pm maybe the shooter didn't see the tents/vehicles etc if he came in the dark.

Still, in the end it all depends how far he was shooting away from you.

[kennym]

yes, finger slipped before id finished typing.

 

so typing this wasnt meant vindictively or to offend, or to stir up trouble?

 

 

"babbyc you are indeed a self righteous man with a very high opinion of your self,

 

Until now I have always been able to ignore your silly posts but showing such disregard for our sport & using silly points to support your perverse argument just tipped it for me

 

The majority of your post reveal your true nature,......... you talk about drinking, bucking the system and generally been ....... well foolish...... surprisingly you seam to thinks such behavior actually enhances your persona"

 

 

as i said, ive tried to state my opinion (which i am entitled to) in this thread, and tried to use common sense, something i find is not in abundance on this site. because of that i have been villified, insulted, accused of things i have never said, and have subsequently resorted to repeating myself and simplifying each post to try and get my point across.

 

thank you.

 

No...... your are an intelligent type so why do you not understand intelligent people can at times be foolish and self absorbed.....

 

YOU MUST understand you can criticize a persons actions without criticizing or attacking that person on a personnel level

 

your post are post of extreme sense to extreme (IMO) silliness ie how quick can you dink vodka, what road signs are best to shoot (no ricochet risk there then)

 

final thought.... no offense meant...... but I to can say what I see

[Blackbart]

Babby would you like a bigger shovel ?

 

I dont think you have used common sense mate as some of the things you have said do give the impression that you arent a health and safety officer as far as shooting goes.Maybe you have come across wrong but it sounds like you dont really care where your bullet ends up as you cant be held responsible for hitting something you were not aiming at because if you always worry were your shot ends up you wouldnt shoot.And maybe that is why some people are having a go at you.

[Ozzy Fudd]

No...... your are an intelligent type so why do you not understand intelligent people can at times be foolish and self absorbed.....

 

YOU MUST understand you can criticize a persons actions without criticizing or attacking that person on a personnel level

 

your post are post of extreme sense to extreme (IMO) silliness ie how quick can you dink vodka, what road signs are best to shoot (no ricochet risk there then)

 

final thought.... no offense meant...... but I to can say what I see

 

so youre saying that if im sensible in one post i must be sensible in all? or if im silly in another i must be a complete eejitall the time? drinking vodka has nothing to do with shooting, that post was not designed to be sensible - which is why its in the playpen area, the same as quite alot of threads on this site, some of the most idiotic posted by some of the most sensible members i know. and yes, the triangular alumium signs have very little chance of recoil, the rounds punch right through them at 50 yards, and would only be a major recoil problem if you used a sign that was still on the steel framework (ie the legs they come with). pushed point down into the ground they make an excellent place to stick targets.

 

and as for criticizing a persons actions without criticising them on a personal level, yes i understand that, however i dont think you do. if i had posted that i didnt shoot using a safe backshot (which i did not post,as i would never do it) then you could criticise my actions. however, i fail to see how this

 

 

The majority of your post reveal your true nature,......... you talk about drinking, bucking the system and generally been ....... well foolish...... surprisingly you seem to thinks such behavior actually enhances your persona"

 

 

is anything but a personal criticism, as it is no way related to the topic in hand, or the point i was trying to get across.

[kennym]

so youre saying that if im sensible in one post i must be sensible in all? or if im silly in another i must be a complete eejitall the time? drinking vodka has nothing to do with shooting, that post was not designed to be sensible - which is why its in the playpen area, the same as quite alot of threads on this site, some of the most idiotic posted by some of the most sensible members i know. and yes, the triangular alumium signs have very little chance of recoil, the rounds punch right through them at 50 yards, and would only be a major recoil problem if you used a sign that was still on the steel framework (ie the legs they come with). pushed point down into the ground they make an excellent place to stick targets.

 

and as for criticizing a persons actions without criticising them on a personal level, yes i understand that, however i dont think you do. if i had posted that i didnt shoot using a safe backshot (which i did not post,as i would never do it) then you could criticise my actions. however, i fail to see how this

 

 

The majority of your post reveal your true nature,......... you talk about drinking, bucking the system and generally been ....... well foolish...... surprisingly you seem to thinks such behavior actually enhances your persona"

 

 

is anything but a personal criticism, as it is no way related to the topic in hand, or the point i was trying to get across.

 

Pleased to say an unconditional cease fire has been agreed via PM........very civilized.........mutual appologies.....I nearly shed a tear

 

..........just in time for big brother......I watch it as a social experiment only