MC Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Neil, I take your point and accept it, however my comment was made about pump actions and killing a simo pair of very fast moving clays. not 6 steel plates with a semi auto. I know it can be done, although my beretta is only a 3 shot but you can get those 3 away very quick indeed. Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't make either one correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 hmm, this thread is going a bit argumentative. i have never owned a shotty in my life so far (hope to get one next year) but i have tried out o/u, sxs, single shots in clay grounds. out of my very little experience if i would have to buy a shotgun which would fit in my low budget, it would be a mossberg 500. i coukd shoot rabbits with it, it could kill pigeons, hell i could take it to an easy going rough shoot which are not very common in my area but there are still a few who have embraced that you can have any type of shotgun. i think having 3 shots would be an advantage all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Neil, however my comment was made about pump actions and killing a simo pair of very fast moving clays. Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't make either one correct. MC I agree, and a shooter would need to have considerable skill in the guns use in order to be on equal terms with an O/U say, but if that is the gun someone wants to use then there really shouldn't be an issue should there, as long as they use it safely ? We are under attack constantly from the anti's & should stick together, part of that may mean the traditionalists might have to compromise a little for the benefit of shooting as a whole, it seems to work abroad ok. N aaron, no arguments here, only opinions discussed in a civil manner. Edited August 25, 2009 by neil smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Hold on. Fact is you can use a o/u for practical shooting if you want to, and you definately can use a pump action for clays at a CPSA event, I know I checked thier rules. So what are you arguing about? Nothing Tell you what, these pump action threads always get loads of posts, mostly positive. I started a thread on AGBBS ages ago that's currently on it's sixth page, there's obviously a lot of interest in them. But quite often, as I said before on this thread, people chip in with opinions and arguments that arn't even relevant to that thread. It's all preconcieved ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 But quite often, as I said before on this thread, people chip in with opinions and arguments that arn't even relevant to that thread. It's all preconcieved ideas. We just like to have a mass debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 hmm, this thread is going a bit argumentative. i have never owned a shotty in my life so far (hope to get one next year) but i have tried out o/u, sxs, single shots in clay grounds. out of my very little experience if i would have to buy a shotgun which would fit in my low budget, it would be a mossberg 500. i coukd shoot rabbits with it, it could kill pigeons, hell i could take it to an easy going rough shoot which are not very common in my area but there are still a few who have embraced that you can have any type of shotgun. i think having 3 shots would be an advantage all the time. for clays it doesnt matter, for rough shooting its invaluable imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuck. Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Not opinionated, just fact. The CPSA are all about competition shooting, and pumps, although a fun gun are not suitable for serious competition. It's all about using the right tool for the job. Would you use an o/u or sxs for PSG? I've shot at quite a few clay grounds and have NEVER come across any kind of 'snobbery' regarding pumps/semi's. I use semi's for all my shooting and have never had so much as a sideways glance, but then i don't go looking for a reaction!! When two people come with the same opinion, it doesn't transform their opinions into fact. I had never at one point said anything regarding snobbery towards the Automatic actions, I myself have never witnessed such a thing, either. The point I was making is that the community is being further broke up now in that the Semi Auto users and Pump Action users are being dissected. How is it a fact that a Pump Action is 'unsuitable' when a Pump user is just as able to hit the fastest pair of a competition as an O/U - SbS? As Neil said, comparing to PSG is just ridiculous as it's about magazine capacity/steady speed shooting and for this reason only there is no way that a double barrel can even be considered, nothing to do with tradition/inverted snobbery of any kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuck. Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Hold on. Fact is you can use a o/u for practical shooting if you want to, and you definately can use a pump action for clays at a CPSA event, I know I checked thier rules. So what are you arguing about? Nothing My point has got nothing at all to do with CPSA functions, I used their website as a reference to the subtle biased comments towards Pump Actions, that most new shooters will be subjected to. Edited August 25, 2009 by Shuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 How is it a fact that a Pump Action is 'unsuitable' when a Pump user is just as able to hit the fastest pair of a competition as an O/U - SbS? I don't think a pump user could hit a fast simo pair as well as with an o/u. I've never seen anything even close and I've tried it myself endless times. There's a simo pair on at Worsley at the moment, and you have to remember, this is an "easy" club shoot, not a registered competition. In order to be sure of them, you need to pull the trigger on an o/u as fast as it can be pulled. There isn't any time for cycling. If you leave the second clay, it's in the trees Horses for courses really. I agree with Neil, there shouldn't be situations where you are stopped from using your gun. But I still maintain that pumps are not "suitable" for winning at clays and my 32" o/u would be a ridiculous tool on a PSG course. As for participating for fun, without winning in mind, I agree with Neil again that it shouldn't matter what we use. As long as we're safe and enjoying it, then that ought to be enough. Perhaps "ideal" rather than "suitable" would have been a better choice of word for the CPSA to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuck. Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I don't think a pump user could hit a fast simo pair as well as with an o/u. I've never seen anything even close and I've tried it myself endless times. There's a simo pair on at Worsley at the moment, and you have to remember, this is an "easy" club shoot, not a registered competition. In order to be sure of them, you need to pull the trigger on an o/u as fast as it can be pulled. There isn't any time for cycling. If you leave the second clay, it's in the trees Hmm mabye a few of us would miss it too but there has to be someone with a Pump who can and thus disprove it for all of us and let the hostility come to an end Horses for courses really. I agree with Neil, there shouldn't be situations where you are stopped from using your gun. But I still maintain that pumps are not "suitable" for winning at clays and my 32" o/u would be a ridiculous tool on a PSG course. As for participating for fun, without winning in mind, I agree with Neil again that it shouldn't matter what we use. As long as we're safe and enjoying it, then that ought to be enough. If there was a section for double barrels in PSG maybe involving two quick targets in each stand then I'd definitely want a go with my SbS Perhaps "ideal" rather than "suitable" would have been a better choice of word for the CPSA to use. I agree completely. It's not the CPSA's point of view I'd like to see swayed, it's everyone reading that sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Pumps are a bit 'shake, rattle and roll' but, hey, they're fun. At the end of this debate, if anyone wants to throw an old or broken Mossy 500 my way, I'm waiting. FC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuck. Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Doubt we'll find one though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I don't think a pump user could hit a fast simo pair as well as with an o/u. I've never seen anything even close and I've tried it myself endless times. id certainly love to give it a go someday chard. it takes me 1/2 second or less to pump another cartridge in. admittedly i may have an advantage over most people in the fact that as i only use pumps (since the start of the year anyway) its now second nature to me to rack the slide; also i use the time it takes me to do that to pull onto the second target, so as soon as i push the slide forward i just need to pull the trigger. at easter time a dozen or so of us met up for an informal clay shoot, just for fun. at one of the stands a pair of clays came over your head from behind you, you only had about 3 seconds to get them. now the catch was one was orange, one was black, and you had to shoot the black one first. even though i was using a pump i still had plenty of time to pick out the black clay, blast it, rack the slide and blast the other one. in fact i would have got a straight 10 til we got to the last pair, and dessie threw out two black clays to catch me out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Perhaps "ideal" rather than "suitable" would have been a better choice of word for the CPSA to use. A good post Chard & I do agree. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 id certainly love to give it a go someday chard. We ought to have a national all-round PW Pumpathon Sporting clays, Skeet, DTL and PSG What a hoot that would be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danccooke Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 are there any PSG in the West Sussex/Hampshire border area? I've had a bit of a scout around but not found anything so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 We ought to have a national all-round PW Pumpathon Sporting clays, Skeet, DTL and PSG What a hoot that would be now that would be fun.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Pumps are a bit 'shake, rattle and roll' but, hey, they're fun. At the end of this debate, if anyone wants to throw an old or broken Mossy 500 my way, I'm waiting.FC ive only ever heard of one, and then the guy somehow managed to bend the barrel so it looked like a banana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 are there any PSG in the West Sussex/Hampshire border area? I've had a bit of a scout around but not found anything so far. Neil will know. If you PM him, I'm sure he'll know of somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) We ought to have a national all-round PW Pumpathon Sporting clays, Skeet, DTL and PSG What a hoot that would be Now ya talkin Pumptastic ! N Dan, PM sent. Edited August 25, 2009 by neil smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I don't have a pump, I shall have to go and purchase something suitable. What pumps are 'A' rated and their name begins with 'B' Ah yes- Benelli........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuck. Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Nowt wrong with the old Mossy now We ought to have a national all-round PW Pumpathon Sporting clays, Skeet, DTL and PSG What a hoot that would be Don't excite me like that Edited August 25, 2009 by Shuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 " I am quite sure that if you went on the PSG website somewhere along the line they would tell you that an O/U or S/S is unsuitable for practical shotgunning as well. It is not prejudice, it is fact. " Well for practical shotgun you physically have to shoot many targets therefore require a gun with as many cartridges as you can put into it. On a clay ground, it is illegal to load more than 2 cartridges into any type of gun, so there is no difference between a person using a pump and and Over and under. I can imagine that an O/U might be designed to be more competititive at clays but there is no reason why you couldn't use a pump for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I don't have a pump, I shall have to go and purchase something suitable. What pumps are 'A' rated and their name begins with 'B' Ah yes- Benelli........ i had one for a week and traded it in for another mossberg, theyre far too fiddly for my liking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil smith Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 i had one for a week and traded it in for another mossberg, theyre far too fiddly for my liking! babby What exactly didn't you like about it ? Just curious ? N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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