Floody Burious

[Raja Clavata]

Took our near 9 month old GSP, Zeus, out for his morning walk over the local country park yesterday morning at 06:30. Passed a group of youngsters on the way in, as they we on their way out, who had obviously been camping there, damn I thought loads more rubbish then.

 

Kept Zeus on the lead past the point where they normally camp and then let him off - his recall can be a little unreliable when he's on the scent and he can be a real so and so for eating stuff that he shouldn't when off the lead.

 

Had a nice peaceful walk until we got by the lake where it became all too apparent that the "campers" had abandonded their usual site and made (that should say wrecked based on the amount of litter, drink bottles and food they left behind) a new one. Off the lead Zeus got stuck into the bags and ate a fair bit of god knows what before I could get him back on the lead and under control. In the meantime he'd also got into the bushes and "recovered" a black bin liner that was also half full of rubbish.

 

After a few curses (out loud!) we made our way home, upon arrival I prepared his breakfast and just before I put it down for him he duly barfed back all the stuff he'd just scavenged all over the lounge carpet. Without going into too much detail it would seem that his earlier scavenged "food" included some human excrement (sorry to mention that - just be thankful you didn't have to clear it up!).

 

I'd already decided that we needed to curtail his scavenging and was intending asking you guys for some guidance before he ate something that really "upset" him - on reflection I'm glad he did barf it or there might have been all sorts of ramifications. So enough is enough now and so I'd really like to understand your experiences in addressing such a problem. I've read a few articles on it, including a paragraph or two in one of Brander's books, I'm very much in favour of trying the chilli approach and would obviously prefer to do it once rather than a number of goes, if possible.

 

Please share your suggestions? (not looking for ideas on how to deal with the scumbags that left all the rubbish - think I already have that covered). Have you found the chilli approach effective or have you found any other approaches / ingredients more effective?

 

Many thanks in advance!

Raja

[MJN]

not my words

"working dogs are routinely taught a "leave it" cue because of the hazards they face on the job. Pills and contaminated medical equipment are occasionally found on the floor in a health care facility. Search and rescue dogs face even greater risks in their work. An immediate response to the handler's "leave it" can save a working dog's life."Leave it" is simple to teach if you prevent the dog from actually getting the item (no reward for failing to "leave it") and provide a meaningful reward (something the dog likes) when the dog listens and leaves the object on the ground alone. Repetition, repetition, repetition and more repetition are the keys to this training. If you get sloppy, the dog will, too.

 

A focused attention exercise is another type of training that empowers you to pilot your dog through areas with hazards on the ground. Here's one way to teach focused attention:

 

Stationary exercises do not work as well for this as moving exercises. If you teach your dog (let's call her Angel) to give attention to you when you say her name, you can eventually develop the ability to get and hold her attention anytime you wish. With attention (and EYES) on you, she simply has none left to get overexcited about the other dog. I learned this method from expert trainer Linda O'Hare Newsome.

 

Have treats on your person (later you may use a toy instead, but it helps to start with tiny, tempting treats, lots of tiny pieces), but keep them out of the dog's sight. To initiate the attention sequence, say "Angel!" and YOU MOVE ABRUPTLY away from her. If you want to say "heel" or "come" or "front" or "by me," that's fine too. The main thing is, say the dog's name - this is going to become the word on which she will learn to look at you - then MOVE.

 

When Angel moves with you, quickly PRAISE her. This is where you would use a clicker if you wish to use that method, but a word of praise is fine, too. Then instantly whip out a treat and give it to her. Do not show the treats until you are ready to give one. This prevents the treat from becoming, in Angel's mind, an actual part of the command, or a bribe. Each time you give a treat, align it between the dog's eyes and yours. You want eye contact from Angel with that treat. Soon you will find her seeking your eye contact. Always praise her when she does that, and it's fine to give her a "free" treat for doing it.

 

You're not done. When you do this sequence, always do at least three to five in a row. That means each time you: 1) say the name, 2) move, 3) praise your dog, 4) whip out a treat, and 5) give it. This doesn't necessarily take up a bunch of space, since you want it all to happen very fast. The movement is not over a great distance. You can move one direction the first time, back the other way the second time, etc. But always do at least three to five repetitions in a row before you release the dog's attention. This is what teaches her to SUSTAIN that attention on you until you release it.

 

Practice this exercise everywhere, including training class. You can do this with a toy, especially once you have taught it to her. But don't rush to get away from the food. Food is the easiest thing to deliver with this split-second timing, and will greatly help you in establishing the pattern of attention.

 

By always praising before you give the treat, you are also building up your praise in the dog's mind. This will allow you later to praise at that correct moment, and be able to deliver the treat (or toy) a bit later (when you have to walk across the room to get one, for example) while the praise maintains the continuity in the dog's mind between the action and the reward.

 

The attention exercise is not extremely time-consuming. Just take a few moments and do it with her in every location where you go together. It's surprising how quickly it becomes habit for the dog to look at you when you say her name--and habit for you to positively reinforce her every time she gives you her attention. People will comment on how much your dog loves you, and the obvious bond between the two of you, and they'll be right!

 

The focused attention exercise quickly becomes second nature to you and to the dog, and naturally blends with "leave it" training. When your dog automatically looks at you whenever you say her name and you automatically give a reward, you will have tremendous power to keep your dog safe everywhere you go together."

 

Or put a muzzle on the dog,

 

screws the retriever part of the exercise though.

 

M.

Edited September 3, 2009 by MGMan

[Boromir]

Give him something to remember. My youngest labrador rolled in **** and I gave him a good kick while he was doing this act, he hasnt done it since people may say Im cruel but I dont like taking my dog home smelling like **** and getting it all over my house.

[Mungler]

Mine likes the odd sneaky roll in fox poop or the odd snack on it :blink:

 

She gets a top of the lungs "leave it" and a whack, followed with "dirty girl" and then blanked for the next hour.

 

It's about every 6 months when she seems to have forgotten the last time she did it and the ensuing result.

 

It is stomach churning stuff mind you and with 3 kids I won't entertain it.

 

She is also turning into a right tublet - if mumping off tables and bins was an Olympic sport which dogs could enter, she would take Gold. Speed, stealth and technique all there. We have to empty the bin before going to bed every night now and we can never leave anything on the table. Catching her is difficult - as per speed, stealth and technique.

[Raja Clavata]

MGMan,

Thanks, have tried most of that - works well on the lead and is OK with a recall off-lead as long as there is no major distraction.

 

He seems to prefer quantity over quality though and even a chunk of home-made liver cake doesn't seem to deter him choosing a pile of you know what on these odd occasions.

 

Since yesterday he seems to really have taken to eating poo again as I just spotted him eating his own in the garden, not had that problem for about 5 months now. Doesn't seem to bode well for chances of success in teaching him a lesson. Seems to only happen on the looser stools though wonder if there is something in that.

 

It's nearly a week now since we returned from a weeks holiday without him where he had been living with the obedience class trainer - lost a lot of weight whilst we were away (I think predominantly because he spent so much time out in the paddock at the trainers place during the week we were away).

 

I'm wondering if this recent coprophralia bout reflects the fact that his mind has not yet caught up with the fact that he's got his original weight back now... certainly hope so. Perhaps also reflects a little boredom since his return to normal home life.

 

BFG,

I can see that a good whack can help on the odd occasion, mine tends to get more of a slap than a whack to get his attention more than hurt him. We had a big falling out once where it did get a bit physical and I felt terrible afterwards. He hasn't got a nasty bone in his body and I don't want to change that - he's best part of 32kg's now so not the kind of dog you want getting seriously out of line. Just his playing can be rough enough for most people. Also heard that GSP's don't respond well to overly-physical correction. Even the old style training books urge caution. Fine line I suspect though.

 

Mung,

I know what you mean but I'd take fox poo in preference to yesterday's experience without reservation (trust me).

 

So, at the moment it's looking like chilli sandwiches strategically placed in the bin and around the garden. Got some scotch bonnets in the fridge :blink:

[ShaggyRS6]

Mine likes the odd sneaky roll in fox poop or the odd snack on it :blink:

 

She gets a top of the lungs "leave it" and a whack, followed with "dirty girl" and then blanked for the next hour.

 

It's about every 6 months when she seems to have forgotten the last time she did it and the ensuing result.

 

It is stomach churning stuff mind you and with 3 kids I won't entertain it.

 

She is also turning into a right tublet - if mumping off tables and bins was an Olympic sport which dogs could enter, she would take Gold. Speed, stealth and technique all there. We have to empty the bin before going to bed every night now and we can never leave anything on the table. Catching her is difficult - as per speed, stealth and technique.

 

Were talking about your dog. Right?

 

*I'm sorry (You can see this has been edited) I know your the King of the comeback. But even if everyone on the planet did not find it funny. I did. to boot, I spat my water all over my keyboard so the lord has paid me back already.*

Edited September 3, 2009 by ShaggyRS6

[turbo33]

Give him something to remember. My youngest labrador rolled in **** and I gave him a good kick while he was doing this act, he hasnt done it since people may say Im cruel but I dont like taking my dog home smelling like **** and getting it all over my house.

 

:blink:

[Boromir]

:blink:

 

Put it this way dog rolls in **** walks by a kid then kid strokes the dog then kid gets **** all over himself, kid becomes ill.

 

Or what if the dog has a wound and gets **** in it?

 

Unless you have another way of getting an immediate stop to it tell us, Im dying to know.

 

You have to be mean sometimes you know.

[turbo33]

Give him something to remember. My youngest labrador rolled in **** and I gave him a good kick while he was doing this act, he hasnt done it since people may say Im cruel but I dont like taking my dog home smelling like **** and getting it all over my house.

 

 

Put it this way dog rolls in **** walks by a kid then kid strokes the dog then kid gets **** all over himself, kid becomes ill.

 

Or what if the dog has a wound and gets **** in it?

 

Unless you have another way of getting an immediate stop to it tell us, Im dying to know.

 

You have to be mean sometimes you know.

 

I am not one for slanging matches, however I have read your other posts and IMO you have a shocking approach to training and understanding your dog. YOU DO NOT KICK A DOG! If its off the lead, its highly likely given the opportunity it will roll in something un savory, thats what they do. So wash him when you get home. If your concerned a child will touch the dog, tell him not to, and if the dog has a wound that your worried might be/get infected TAKE IT TO THE VET. Don't waste valuable time discussing the matter on a forum in the hope of avoiding veterinary fees! :blink:

[WGD]

IMO it's an obedience issue, train it. Recall should be 100%, leave what you're doing and get your backside back here NOW. With such a young dog it's case of more training in a controlled environment and less off lead work unless he's being trained - exercise his brain, he'll be more tired than if he ran around on a "walk". If he can do wrong, he will, so keep temptation out of his way.

 

Good luck :blink:

 

edit to say this was to RC.

Edited September 3, 2009 by wgd

[Boromir]

I am not one for slanging matches, however I have read your other posts and IMO you have a shocking approach to training and understanding your dog. YOU DO NOT KICK A DOG! If its off the lead, its highly likely given the opportunity it will roll in something un savory, thats what they do. So wash him when you get home. If your concerned a child will touch the dog, tell him not to, and if the dog has a wound that your worried might be/get infected TAKE IT TO THE VET. Don't waste valuable time discussing the matter on a forum in the hope of avoiding veterinary fees! :blink:

 

I said what if. My dogs are trained good enough for me, I have learnt that I need to keep them on the lead but there are areas that I can let them off. Even if you wash them the smell still hangs around for hours.

 

And my dog is fine he was shaking due to Shock I went to the Vets the next morning and is now back to normal just got to wait for the cut to heal.

[al4x]

Raja yours is similar to mine being a GWP so you have a few issues, stubbornness and a fondness for **** and dead stuff, mine will scent rabbit guts upwind at 200 yards plus :blink: stopping her is not easy, either you take the BFG approach and beat the living daylights out of your dog which will eventually work possibly or you either avoid the issue by going back on the lead when you expect to encounter the problem.

I cured mine after much umming and aahing with a training collar. Ok not the ideal as in the ideal you'd practice recall endlessly and the dog would do it when out and encountering horse poo but mine lacked the ability to recall when the poo presented itself. Between this and a keenness for rabbits I borrowed a collar, think i used it on its minimum setting about 3 times but giving a beep before using the stimulus setting. Cured her straight away and took all the stress out of walks and being careful off the lead about distractions etc and I actually had a happier dog that was more keen to please. It broke the behaviour in a non confrontational way which stopped the stubborness and had her looking to me for instructions as soon as a comand was given. Mine you could get cross ignore her stern words and she'd look at you and carry on, scruffing her and making her stay close then resulted in sulking in the way pointers do and no improvement the next time. treats worked so well but backed up with a collar we got back on track very fast having stopped the collar now she's pretty good. i'm sure I'll need it to start the season as she's a bit too keen on game particularly of the fox and muntjack kind so we're working on that at the moment.

[roadkill]

Give him something to remember. My youngest labrador rolled in **** and I gave him a good kick while he was doing this act, he hasnt done it since people may say Im cruel but I dont like taking my dog home smelling like **** and getting it all over my house.

 

And this would be the reason your dog does not recall to you and gets bit by a sbt ( all i can say is poor dog )

[Boromir]

And this would be the reason your dog does not recall to you and gets bit by a sbt ( all i can say is poor dog )

 

This is my other dog. I didnt know that house smelling of **** was popular thing these days. The fact is there are plenty out there that smack there dogs but dont admit to it. Just cause I have admit that I hit my dog once everyone pounce on me. If you dont like the way I train my dog dont reply. Im learning as much as my dog is. As its my first dog. Apart from the recall my dog is excellent.

[Raja Clavata]

wgd,

Thanks for the input, obedience is an issue. I've known for a while that I made the mistake of letting him free run in an uncontrolled manner too much as a younger pup. If I hadn't done this I'm sure his recall would be so much more robust by now. Actually it was really good to start with and we built on it a fair bit before he started to regress, the mistake was not nipping it in the bud (lack of experience on my part).

 

All that said, as has been suggested by al4x, I'm not sure it would fully resolve the off-lead scavenging and poo issues. I look forward very much to being proven wrong though

 

A4lx,

Thanks for sharing your experience, it sounds like we've had very similar issues; mine nearly always does take a look back when I try to correct him remotely but more times than not runs towards the rabbit, other dog or just keeps munching on the "rubbish".

 

I got a remote controlled spray collar to try and get some of his around the home behavioural issues sorted, largely a waste of money as he just shrugged it off most of the time, enough to make him jump initially and stand a chance of correcting but certainly not at range off the lead. I wouldn't go the electric collar route without doing it in the presence of someone with experience of doing so. But you have given me hope that such a route could work, cheers.

 

The BFG,

I'm sorry that my request for help led to you getting lambasted. It's not even like the people that have had a pop at you have contributed anything constructive to the original thread.

 

Rgds

Raja