bobby dazzler Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 can i borrow a shot gun of a mate who has a licence to lend to a mate who does not have a licence he wants to come shooting with me will my licence cover him to use the shotgun if he is in the hide with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strongski Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 no but yes !!!!!!!!!! if you have 2 guns there he can be your loader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 dont quote me,but i think you can legally borrow a shotgun without informing law for 3 days, and therefore should be able to let someone use it in your supervision . but please check with feo ,dont take my word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strongski Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 i think you have to be with the land owner with the land owners gun by law look up shotgun laws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soontjen Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 no but yes as above if you've only got the one gun in the hide .. .your the only one shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heladoxa Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Hello BD Why don't you ask your firearms officer direct, and then you will know for sure. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) Woah. Right, no need to ask an FEO. The law book will answer this! You can legally borrow a gun if you have a SGC. For up to 72 hours (I think it's that. It might be 42) Now, seeing as you're on land which isn't yours, (I assume) you would need to have the landowners permission for he or she to shoot there. If by some stroke of luck the landowner has applied for an exemption in the law under either section 11 or 12 (really can't quite remember(I've had a couple tonight) then they can fire away with you. If the landowner doesn't, then he or she must directly supervise the unlicenced shooter, to the point of sitting next to them. I hope this helps. Edited September 10, 2009 by harfordwmj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Now, seeing as you're on land which isn't yours, (I assume) you would need to have the landowners permission for he or she to shoot there. If by some stroke of luck the landowner has applied for an exemption in the law under either section 11 or 12 (really can't quite remember(I've had a couple tonight) then they can fire away with you. If the landowner doesn't, then he or she must directly supervise the unlicenced shooter, to the point of sitting next to them. I hope this helps. Unless you're in Northen Ireland which has the much more sensible policy that an unlicensed person can have a gun under the direct supervision of someone who is licensed. I think. Nial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 if youve got a sgc you can borrow a shotgun for 72 hrs without entering it onto your cert, i guess this allows a gun to be lent for a weekend mikee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby dazzler Posted September 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 thanks all great help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 if you own the land,any one can use your shot gun, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heladoxa Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 As I see it, nobody REALLY knows. It's all 'perhaps', 'I think', 'maybe'. Why don't you do what I said, and go to your firearms officer and get a definitive answer from the person who really Knows? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 i asked my flo if i can take a mate out and use my gun, he said only if i owned the land, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Taken from Essex police site.... Aged 17-years or over A person of 17-years or above may purchase a shot gun and ammunition with a valid shot gun certificate. A shot gun certificate is required at any age unless: * Shooting with the occupier of land and using their gun in their presence; * Shooting at a police approved clay shoot. I hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 The "occupier" part is open to interpretation though - owner, shoot rights holder, leaser of the land, person with permission etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) Yes but it still needs to be "Their" gun...I take this to mean owned by the"Occupier"..Whoever that may be ?..If it is a gun that is borrowed it isn't "Theirs" Therefore doesn't comply ? Edited September 11, 2009 by Slug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soontjen Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) legally 100% no if he get's caught it would be your m8 for lending the gun knowing your lending it out to someone who hasn't got a sgc and you for lending it your other m8 both in the s""" why does'nt he get a s.g.c ? Edited September 11, 2009 by soontjen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 As I see it, nobody REALLY knows. It's all 'perhaps', 'I think', 'maybe'. Why don't you do what I said, and go to your firearms officer and get a definitive answer from the person who really Knows? Bill where did I say any of the above. I gave reference to the firearms law (sorry it wasn't spot on in regards to it being either sect 11 or 12, I just don't sleep with the firearms law book on my bedside table) If I was wrong, I'd have been shot down (excuse the pun) on here. People come on here to get advice, not to be fobbed off to their FEO at the first opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 A non SGC holder can use a shotgun lent to him by the occupier of land for use whilst in his presence ("presence" has never been proven but is taken to mean within visual/verbal contact): If you have shooting rights/permission then it can be argued that you are "the occupier" for sporting purposes. You must lend your friend your gun and you use the borrowed one. The way I have it worked is that I have bought a spare gun (£100 knockabout o/u) that I can lend to my friend on land where I have permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heladoxa Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Hello Harford, If you look back at the correspondence, I didn't say that YOU said anything. Again if you look back you will see that people have really tried to help Bobby Dazzler, but a lot of the information has been a bit fuzzy. A few small quotes: ' Don't quote me but I think ..." 'I THINK you have to be the landowner' 'Unless in Northern Ireland' (which he's not) 'Shooting is ok if with occupier' followed by 'define occupier' Your advice was: 'can borrow a gun, it might be for 72 hours, it might be for 42 hours, it might be section 11, or it might be section 12. I really can't remember, I've had a couple tonight' My advice was, 'Call your firearms officer, he's paid to know the right answers and give you definitive advice' I quote you: 'People come on here to get advice, not to be fobbed off to their FEO at the first opportunity.' You gave your advice and I gave mine. I think mine is of more value, but please don't get annoyed with me because you had a bad hair day. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Well it's good for you that you have 100% memory recall after you've been out for a night. Sorry, I'll make sure I get my facts right. It's 72 hours to hold a shotgun without having to write it on your ticket. The area of the law is under Section 11 of the firearms law and is an exemption given to sporting grounds allowing unlicenced shooters to use a shotgun whilst not being under the direct supervision of the occupier. babbyc1000 will always voice his concerns over what the 'occupier' is defined as. However it is apparent that FEOs themselves don't even know, as plenty of people on here say that some are lenient and others aren't. So not all follow the rule book. Yes, your FEO is there to help and guide you, but I'm sure their patientce can be worn thin if they feel like a helpline. The last time I called my FEO about a firearms law query I searched the firearms law, top to bottom, then asked on here. I got no straight answer, so I called him. Why did I do all that first? So I didn't look a complete *** when he says "turn to page 43 in the law book and it's a whole section on it" anyway please see below the relevant citations: The following apply - Eng Wales ,Scotland A person without a valid SGC can be in possession of a shotgun if: 1 It has been borrowed from the occupier of private premises and used on those premises in the occupiers presence. 2. It is used at a time and place approved by the local Chief Officer of police for shooting artificial targets. 3. A visitors shotgun permit is held 4. It is used by the holder of a N Ireland FAC The issue under (1) is who is the occupier? The farming tenant, yes, the owner of the land yes, the owner of the shooting rights, possibly, the holder of a shooting lease...maybe maybe not. Best bet is always to confirm with your FLO who they say are classed as 'the occupier' David From the Act:Section 11 (5) of the Firearms Act 1968 provides that: A person who does not possess a shotgun certificate may borrow a gun from the occupier of private premises, and use it on those premises in the occupier's presence. (Section 57(4) provides that premises shall include land). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heladoxa Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Respect, Harford. That seems to tie it up pretty well. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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