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#1 Logo

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 12:08 PM

I am looking to get an e collar for my dog on recommendation of my trainer.

I have seen them on eBay (item 190679029475) for @30. Has anybody had experience of these?

Has anybody got a second hand one they have had success with they might consider selling?

#2 Actionpigeons

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:58 PM

E collars are very good, but you should be very careful using them.
This may sound a little strange but a dog should be trained before using an E collar.
By this I mean a dog should know what you are asking it do do before you use a E Collar. The E Collar is a good traing aid.

If you have a problem with a dog, such as chasing game/rabbits and not stoping to the whistel. Then they can be used to inforce the stop signel but you cant use them to teach the stop signel.

I had a Springer a cpl of years back that I fully trained, she started chasing game birds when she flushed them. No matter how many times I took her back to the flush point and enforced the stop she still chased. A cpl of outing with a mates E collar and the problem went away.

however I have seen a few good dogs become sticky from the use of E Collars. You should not use them to train a dog or on young dogs.

Sorry for going on a bit, but so many people use them as a short cut to putting the time into training.

Edited by Actionpigeons, 10 June 2012 - 02:07 PM.


#3 redtailhawk1

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:12 PM

The dog can become afraid/ aggressive of people touching its neck or taking a lead off after using one. Sean it happen even though it was used correctly with dummy colar etc. The dogs are not stupid. Just something to bear in mind.

I am not saying they don't work, because they do, very well. Just be aware and monitor the behavior of your dog when using it.

#4 Logo

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:16 PM

I am looking to get an e collar for my dog on recommendation of my trainer.




My dog is two years old. I have "put the time in" with him. I regularly travel 120 miles round trip to train with the breeder. More lessons for me than him which I reinforce daily at home.

He has aggression issues with other dogs after being attacked on two separate occasions by Staffordshire bull terriers.

Thanks for your concerns. What make was your mates collar that cured your springer chasing flushed birds? Does he fancy lending it to me? ;)

Edited by Logo, 10 June 2012 - 03:19 PM.


#5 cracker

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:17 PM

So, logo, you're using the e-collar as a preventive measure rather than a tool for gundog training then?

Good response, actionpigeon, especially

This may sound a little strange but a dog should be trained before using an E collar.


That is exactly as it's intended - for training.

As for running in, I've known spaniel trainers who misused (my opinion) the e-collar, stimulating the dog the instant it flushed a bird in hopes of stopping it in its tracks. To their eternal regret, they ended up with a dog that "blinked" birds rather than flush them. Meaning they feared the e-collar to the point they would bypass birds that they clearly had found.

MG

#6 bedwards1966

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:59 PM

I think your barking up the wrong tree (OK sorry...) getting a collar for this problem.

You dog has had an experience with other dogs which has left him frightened of them, which is causing him to attack them first?
What exactly do you intend to do with the collar? Give it a belt every time it goes near another dog? Give it a belt every time a dog goes near your dog? Give it a belt for thinking about another dog?
Do any of those things when your dog is frightened and you will make the problem worse.

What needs to happen is for your dog to learn (through positive experience, nothing else) that other dogs don't hurt. If you give it a belt every time it has anything to do with another dog it will end up terrified (as it won't understand why it's in so much pain) so it'll either run for miles every time it sees another dog, or it'll go in seriously each time - and you'll end up with a dog that can't ever be off a lead or taken out without a muzzle on, and only at 5am when there are no other dogs nearby. Neither option are the results you need.
Your dog needs to socialise with other dogs that are not threatening in any way, and to learn that they don't hurt. As time goes by his confidence will grow, and eventually even when faced with an aggressive Staffordshire bull terrier your dog will know that it doesn't have to fight first. It can take a very long time, but this is the only way. Avoid all dogs that could attack your dog while letting his confidence build up, as if he gets attacked it will set him back again.


These collars are incredibly useful, when used by the right people. The person using them has to read the dog and understand exactly what is going through it's mind. Get it wrong and it causes pain and suffering, and can cause the dog to become a nervous wreck. Oh, these collars really hurt. It's not a tingle, it's several thousand, very painful volts. It hurts.
They are only to be used to make the dog understand that you can reach it to control it at distance, when the dog is fully aware of what it's being asked to do but thinks it can get away with it because the owner isn't within reach. They do not 'train' dogs for anything else.
As to dogs getting scared when the collars are put on them, it's because the person using the collar has shown their ineptitude. If someone put a collar on you, and then you received huge amounts of pain (especially when you don't understand why, as is sadly often the case) you'd very quickly put 2 and 2 together and work out what was causing the pain.
The dog should wear the collar for about a week to get used to it before it's ever actually used.
In the hands of those who know what they are doing they are fantastic, but in the hands of the less experienced they become crude torture devices.
I'd be wary of these cheap ones on eBay, they don't appear to have any fail-safe systems in place, if something went wrong I can see them giving the dog agony until the battery dies, which will not be quick. The more expensive ones have safety devices built in to prevent this happening.

#7 Actionpigeons

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:08 AM

[quote name='cracker' timestamp='1339370247' post='1810587']
So, logo, you're using the e-collar as a preventive measure rather than a tool for gundog training then?

Good response, actionpigeon, especially


That is exactly as it's intended - for training.

As for running in, I've known spaniel trainers who misused (my opinion) the e-collar, stimulating the dog the instant it flushed a bird in hopes of stopping it in its tracks. To their eternal regret, they ended up with a dog that "blinked" birds rather than flush them. Meaning they feared the e-collar to the point they would bypass birds that they clearly had found.

MG
I agree the E Collar must be used with a lot of care and not over used :good:

Edited by Actionpigeons, 11 June 2012 - 06:22 AM.


#8 Logo

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:56 AM

Thanks for your input Bedwards. I am not looking for a crude torture device I am being guided by my trainer on this issue. She breeds and trains dogs for police and armed forces. She has had him with groups of dogs and he has responded well to a collar. When he has shown aggression a bleep is normally enough to snap him out of it.

People are reluctant to let their dogs run with another dog that may attack. So I need something I can use to reach out to him if he shows aggression when he comes across
another dog.

Has ANYBODY got a recommendation for a make & model of collar if the cheaper ones have no fail safes?

#9 working dog

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:14 AM

E collar wouldnt be my first choice to fix this.

As was said before, socialisation with other dogs and positive experiences would be a better fix. If you use an e collar on too high a setting the dog can think it is being attacked which could make him fight more.

That said, I did use an e collar with a friends dog that was bullying their other dog. Nothing aggressive but barging through, knocking the other dog over. I set the collar to a light stim rather than a 'belt' and let them play on some open land. As soon as the dog was going in with intent I gave it a nick which stopped the dog bullying. The nick was so slight that the owners didnt realise that I was stimming the dog. After a couple of sessions we cured the bullying.

If you are buying a collar, Dogtra are very good but dont come cheap

#10 al4x

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:43 AM

whether its the right tool for the job I don't know but it sounds like it is being done under the guidance of an experienced trainer, what I will say is if the dog is going to simply attack other dogs while out it is the only way you will stop it before it gets there unless it is always on the lead.
The PAC collars are more expensive but tend to work well, mine needed one for a while and actually likes wearing it mostly because she sees it as a sign of going to "work" that said I have only shocked her a handful of times and the beep is all she needs to pull her out of her trance. The people who imagine you shocking hell out of your dog either haven't used one or have seen the odd pillock with a spaniel belting it repeatedly as it shouldn't have been out

#11 Logo

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:41 AM

E collar wouldnt be my first choice to fix this.

As was said before, socialisation with other dogs and positive experiences would be a better fix. If you use an e collar on too high a setting the dog can think it is being attacked which could make him fight more.



It's not my first choice it's my last resort to be able to keep my dog.

Socialisation is working but he does still have episodes. I travel to the trainer where he socialises with other dogs on a regular basis but with it being a 120 mile round trip I can't do it every day. As I have said before a bleep is normally enough to snap him out of his aggression. I don't have the intention of giving my dog a 1000s of volt electric shock.

Thanks for the recommendation of the Dogtra collar. That's what the trainer uses. I was just looking for a cheaper alternative.

Ps it doesn't hurt that much as I tried it on my thigh before I let the trainer put it on my pal/dog. :good:

#12 Logo

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:44 AM

Thankyou al4x. Somebody is reading my posts.

The PAC collar is another I've looked at. Looks like I'll be spending more money. :hmm:

#13 working dog

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:41 AM

Ive had my Dogtra for about 7 years and although I havent used it often I've had no issues with it. John Humphris is a good website to see a range of collars

I tested my collar on myself and it isnt a case of coursing thousands of volts through the dog. Vibrate is often enough to stop the dog.

#14 Shabz

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 06:21 PM

I have a PAC collar, I bought it because my gwp wouldn't come to recall and would run across roads etc. it was a fantastic tool. I couldn't trust myself to use it for training. Expensive, but I wouldnt be using a cheap one on my dog!

#15 labstaff

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:01 PM

Pet supermarket are good value on the petsafe range. The venture is a good quality products which start with a low levelshock (I tried it on myself first)!

#16 Catweazle

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:12 PM

I used Sportdog collars to stop my mutts from rolling in foxdoo. They are good, you can set 8 different levels and program it to beep first and only shock if you hold the button down for a second longer.

http://www.britishdo...CFVMetAodYTJrXQ

#17 gilo17

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 07:41 PM

Ive just bought a petsafe one looks and feels a quality piece of kit!

Edited by gilo17, 13 June 2012 - 07:41 PM.


#18 kent

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:29 AM

My dog is two years old. I have "put the time in" with him. I regularly travel 120 miles round trip to train with the breeder. More lessons for me than him which I reinforce daily at home.

He has aggression issues with other dogs after being attacked on two separate occasions by Staffordshire bull terriers.

Thanks for your concerns. What make was your mates collar that cured your springer chasing flushed birds? Does he fancy lending it to me? ;)



i have no issues with e-collars used correctly in the right circumstances and do own one. This is not one of them IMO get a new trainer ASAP, using an e-collar in these circumstances is quite likely to make things a lot worse very quickly. Just re-read that "training with the breeder" sorry re-phrase required get a trainer or a refferal from a local vet for the Animal behavourist local to you.

#19 Logo

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:45 PM

I ended up buying a Petsafe 250. It has 8 shock levels and has not been off level 1. My dog has responded excellently to it. He behaves like he does in my garden wherever he is. Recalls everytime and if he sees a dog before I do the bleep is enough to lower his shackles.

I have only shocked him once with it when he was chasing a rabbit towards a road.

I am so glad I listened to my breeder/trainer and bought it. :good:

#20 al4x

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:50 PM

nice one, most dogs they work really well with a bit of intelligence in their use. The key bonus is you can give the dog more leeway and let it gain in confidence knowing you can stop any issue arising. Then as you relax it works both ways




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