Highlander Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 The following is an extract from the CAs current newsletter. You have been warned and my suggestion is DO NOT vote any of these ******** back into office at the next election! If you think it couldn't happen ask any Dutch shooter why they travel to the UK so frequently to shoot. There is no shortage of organisations and individuals justifying their existence by taking pot-shots at the fieldsports community but an uncomfortably high number of shooters insist there is no direct political threat to shooting. Given the outrageous amount of time wasted on devising unworkable and illiberal anti-hunting legislation, many wrongly assumed there was little appetite to launch an attack on shooting. How wrong could they be? A recent Early Day Motion (EDM) put down by Labour MP David Taylor reads as follows: ''That this House notes that every year in Britain around 35 million pheasants and six million partridges are purpose bred in cages, sheds and pens so that they can be released and shot for sport; is concerned about the suffering endured by these birds and by the large number of indigenous wild mammals and birds that are trapped, snared, poisoned and shot to protect this activity; is alarmed by the thousands of tons of leadshot and plastic casings discharged annually by live quarry shooters, and also by the disruption caused to native wildlife at the start of each shooting season when the millions of pheasants and partridges are released; and calls on the Government to enact legislation at the earliest opportunity to prohibit the production of birds for sport shooting, in line with the ban introduced in Holland in 2002.' It must be said that EDMs simply allow MPs to express their support for an issue. However, I find it extremely disturbing - but not surprising - that at the time of writing 65 MPs have signed Mr Taylor's EDM. That means more than 10% of MPs currently sitting in the House of Commons want to ban game shooting. While one Conservative MP, Ann Widdecombe, has signed along with a few Liberal Democrats, the majority of signatories are Labour MPs. There are some Labour MPs, such as our own chairman, who support shooting, but it is an unavoidable fact that this is a predominantly Labour-driven EDM. I doubt the signatories have read Labour's Charter for Shooting (or even know it exists) and perhaps they have forgotten Labour's Manifesto commitment to protect shooting. It all reminds me of the desperate clamour by many MPs during the pre-hunt ban period when they attempted to convince the shooting community that their sport would be safe with Labour - it was only hunting they were after, they said. Yet since 1997, during the time it took to cook up a single piece of legislation on hunting, almost 30 laws were passed restricting shooting in one form or another. It cannot be long before a private member's bill is introduced which calls for the ban on driven game shooting. While most of them fail and it is easy to be dismissive of EDMs, the shooting community should not forget the consistent annual bombardment of Parliament by MPs launching private members bills to ban hunting. Eventually they wore down a hostile House of Commons. They could do it again. You can find out if your MP has signed up to Mr Taylor's EDM by visiting http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails....amp;SESSION=899. You can then make your views known both directly to the MP and at the General Election. Simon Hart Chief Executive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon_snIPer Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Ban those MPs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB916 Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Already pointed out: http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...mp;#entry886503 but yes, it needs a carefull watching. Maybe they should be more concerned on their current staus re: expenses etc ? Dave B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Relax, This EDM is little more than political graffitti, it is not supported by about 90% of MP's that should tell you somthing. It won't be going anywhere Please remember at all the party conferences recently, BASC secured commitment from all theree main political parties for shooting. I found this release to be little more than scaremongering to be honest. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Relax, This EDM is little more than political graffitti, it is not supported by about 90% of MP's that should tell you somthing. It won't be going anywhere Please remember at all the party conferences recently, BASC secured commitment from all theree main political parties for shooting. I found this release to be little more than scaremongering to be honest. David Good news, "Peace in our time" then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEFTY478 Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Chillax people! 67 names of a meaningless piece of paper, of which: - 1 x Tory - won't be standing next time round 57 x Lab - of which appx half will be picking up their P45 in May 9 x assorted Ind, SNP & Libs - who gives a **** what they think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 The other point worth checking is when this EDM was put down - June I think it was....old news re-cycled for effect I am affraid, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) I know it's an old EDM, but my MP is a signatory, so I felt better for penning the following: Dear David Drew, I was surprised and disappointed to see you named as a supporter of David Taylor's June EDM which effectively calls for a ban on game shooting. As well as providing employment, livelihood and recreation for a great many people, game shooting is largely responsible for our unique British countryside. 60% of rural land is managed for shooting and without it there would be no incentive to maintain the woods, hedgerows and other features which make our countryside so beautiful. When I sit down to locally sourced roast partridge tonight, I do so with a clear conscience knowing it has had a better life, and a less traumatic death than any supermarket chicken. I believe in animal welfare, but there are far more important issues to address. Intensively reared broiler chickens for example, though I accept this might not be such a vote winner amongst urban supermarket shoppers buying two for a fiver in Tescos? Game is free range, organic, sustainably harvested and locally sourced. It is low in fat and cholesterol and high in protein. Why, yet again are the urban "elite" hell-bent on destroying a way of life they have little understanding of? A great many of your constituents in and around the five valleys are shooters, keepers, beaters, loaders, pickers-up, game farmers and game dealers. A silent, law abiding minority, but one that is sick of being used as an easy target by MPs. I do not vote on party lines, but make my mind up on the issues which are important to me. You are a good constituency MP and I was pleased to see you avoided the expenses excesses of your colleagues, but please - consider your rural, as well as urban constituents. I ask you to reconsider your stance on this issue Yours sincerely, I'm sure it will make no difference, but it made me feel better! Edited October 30, 2009 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 A good letter. My MP was on the list too, Andrew Miller, I was surprised as he and I have had many a chat about shooting. He is far from anti, has no issue with shooting for the pot, traget shooting or pest control. What he is opposed to is the shooting of 'feathered targets'on big bag days David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 just found this on the air gun forum Natural England are proposing that the driving of Grouse to waiting Guns be made illegal. The only form of Grouse shooting to be allowed will be walked up. maybe N.E will do the mp,s work for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I know it's an old EDM, but my MP is a signatory, so I felt better for penning the following: Dear David Drew, I was surprised and disappointed to see you named as a supporter of David Taylor's June EDM which effectively calls for a ban on game shooting. As well as providing employment, livelihood and recreation for a great many people, game shooting is largely responsible for our unique British countryside. 60% of rural land is managed for shooting and without it there would be no incentive to maintain the woods, hedgerows and other features which make our countryside so beautiful. When I sit down to locally sourced roast partridge tonight, I do so with a clear conscience knowing it has had a better life, and a less traumatic death than any supermarket chicken. I believe in animal welfare, but there are far more important issues to address. Intensively reared broiler chickens for example, though I accept this might not be such a vote winner amongst urban supermarket shoppers buying two for a fiver in Tescos? Game is free range, organic, sustainably harvested and locally sourced. It is low in fat and cholesterol and high in protein. Why, yet again are the urban "elite" hell-bent on destroying a way of life they have little understanding of? A great many of your constituents in and around the five valleys are shooters, keepers, beaters, loaders, pickers-up, game farmers and game dealers. A silent, law abiding minority, but one that is sick of being used as an easy target by MPs. I do not vote on party lines, but make my mind up on the issues which are important to me. You are a good constituency MP and I was pleased to see you avoided the expenses excesses of your colleagues, but please - consider your rural, as well as urban constituents. I ask you to reconsider your stance on this issue Yours sincerely, I'm sure it will make no difference, but it made me feel better! That's a really well-written letter. I doubt also that it will make any difference because if an MP is happy to sign such a motion then they are clearly either a tree-hugger or an ignorant townie. Can I suggest that if you get a response, which is likely to be **** off, then perhaps ask said MP if he is a vegetarian? If he says No, then you know which side of my two camps he sits with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) I had a reply, at 23:40 last night! In contrast to the perceived view of MPs, ours is hard working and a good constituency MP. I do not share his views on many things but I think he is one of the rare few who is in politics for genuine reasons. His reply: Dear Mr XXX Thank you for your email. I am very surprised at what you say as the EDM mirrors BASC's own desire to end the rearing of game that has not been done so on free range principles. The EDM just re-iterates what BASC have said to me on many occasions and I don't really see what is controversial about it? Yours sincerely David Drew Edited October 31, 2009 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) His reply: And mine to him: Dear Mr Drew Thank you for your interest and prompt reply. I believe you may have misread the wording of the EDM. Were it merely a call to improve welfare standards for reared game, I would wholeheartedly support it. It does not. It calls unequivocally for a complete ban on rearing any game. I quote: "calls on the Government to bring forward legislation at the earliest opportunity to prohibit the production of birds for sport shooting". Were such a prohibition enacted it would effectively destroy game shooting in this country. You may now perhaps understand my surprise and disappointment at seeing your name on this. The EDM goes on to use emotive language to attack many other aspects of shooting, and is a thinly veiled attack on all shooting. I am a BASC member, and am certain that this in no way mirrors their view and am concerned that you may have been given that impression. I shall contact them as soon as possible to see how this may have come about. Can I ask for a clarification of your views on this? Do you support the aims of this EDM as worded, i.e. a complete ban on rearing game? Thank you again for taking the time to engage with me on this Yours Sincerely Edited October 31, 2009 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 And mine to him: Dear Mr Drew Thank you for your interest and prompt reply. I believe you may have misread the wording of the EDM. Were it merely a call to improve welfare standards for reared game, I would wholeheartedly support it. It does not. It calls unequivocally for a complete ban on rearing any game. I quote: "calls on the Government to bring forward legislation at the earliest opportunity to prohibit the production of birds for sport shooting". Were such a prohibition enacted it would effectively destroy game shooting in this country. You may now perhaps understand my surprise and disappointment at seeing your name on this. The EDM goes on to use emotive language to attack many other aspects of shooting, and is a thinly veiled attack on all shooting. I am a BASC member, and am certain that this in no way mirrors their view and am concerned that you may have been given that impression. I shall contact them as soon as possible to see how this may have come about. Can I ask for a clarification of your views on this? Do you support the aims of this EDM as worded, i.e. a complete ban on rearing game? Thank you again for taking the time to engage with me on this Yours Sincerely Fascinating. I wonder how many more of these EDMs are supported by MPs who have either failed to understand them or not read them but been talked into it by someone who has left out the inconvenient details to increase uptake? Still, top marks to your chap for responding, do keep us informed of the eventual outcome, if he has the balls to come back and admit he misunderstood and withdraws his support then perhaps you should name him...we need to know who the honest ones are! I had an exchange with my Tory MP just after labour came to power, he impresssed me hugely and I was convinced that we would always have an honest representative who stood up for his rural constituents and stuck to the principles on which he was elected. You might have heard of him, his name is John Bercow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Glad to hear he came back with an answer - be good to see what he says to your second email! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted November 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Blunderbus well done! A well thought out and written letter. Keep it up and I’d advise all shooters to do the same, use the same letter if you’re too illiterate to write your own but protest, let these ******** know we will not sit by and watch our way of life be sold short. I know BASC support the banning of mass produced game and mass slaughter of same BUT they need to be very careful that in doing so they don’t get shafted by those ******** in Westminster (to whom such is second nature) and we end up with a complete ban on rearing and shooting released birds. Believe me it could so easily happen even with a Tory government . BASC need to remember who supplies their funding...and it’s not Westminster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 there is no middle ground and frankly standards of rearing etc even on estates with massive bags are often better than on small syndicates, one things for sure they ought to concentrate on the likes of Bernard Mathews plants before trying to tell anyone shootings cruel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 I think you find Mr Drew is no fan of game shooting, so not too surprising that he oput his name to this document in the first please. BASC council (made up of the elected members of course) took a decision a few years ago that BASC is not in favour of these large scale production raised laying cages. BASC would certianly keep supporting the notion that well-run, traditional outdoor egg laying systems are the preferred route for fertile pheasant egg production in the UK. We encourage our members to but their eggs or poults from local UK suppliers who rley on traditional methofds of egg / bird production Doubltess there will be more on this issue in the coming months by the way. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Hmm..... No reply from Mr Drew to my follow-up e-mail telling him he hadn't read the EDM he had signed I just want a simple yes or know as to whether he still supports it, now I've pointed out what it ACTUALLY says! I did get a reply from Marford Mill though : Seems they've already tried to contact the confused MP for Stroud, but he was "too busy", which doesn't really tally with his response to me. Dear Mr XXX, I was surprised at David Drew’s email because it does not reflect what BASC has said. We have not called for rearing on “free-range principles” but for an end to battery cages and rearing on traditional lines. The motion does not only refer to cages but also to pens which are perfectly suitable for rearing as long as they are the right size. The motion also condemns pest control which BASC supports. Furthermore BASC has never supported an end to “sport shooting” or a Dutch legislative regime – which in itself doesn’t end “sport shooting.” The EDM is confused, contradictory and poorly informed. It certainly doesn’t reflect BASC thinking. The last time I contacted Drew to brief him on battery cages he didn’t have the time to see me. His record over the last parliament has been in general anti shooting sports. Christopher Graffius Director of Communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 After his initial swift response, it's all gone quiet Perhaps due to me me pointing out that he hadn't read it and his paraphrasing of BASC was false. I know from David BASC's response on another thread that this EDM has absolutely no chance of going anywhere, but I'm determined to pin him down and find out if he still supports this anti nonsense and let him know that if he does it will cost him votes. I know getting a simple yes/no from a politician will be harder than getting a BJ from Mary Whitehouse, but I'm going to keep plugging away at it. How annoying am I?! Dear Mr Drew I wonder if you have had time to read my reply to your recent e-mail on David Taylor’s game rearing EDM (copied below)? I imagine you must be extremely busy, but I would be very grateful for a brief response (yes/no will suffice) as to whether or not you still support this EDM now you know it effectively calls for a complete ban on game shooting, rather than just battery cages? This issue is very important to me and may influence the my voting preference and that of friends and family in the forthcoming general election. You may also wish to know that I was able to obtain clarification from BASC on your belief that the EDM mirrors their view. You will see from their reply it does not: Dear Mr. XXXX, I was surprised at David Drew’s email because it does not reflect what BASC has said. We have not called for rearing on “free-range principles” but for an end to battery cages and rearing on traditional lines. The motion does not only refer to cages but also to pens which are perfectly suitable for rearing as long as they are the right size. The motion also condemns pest control which BASC supports. Furthermore BASC has never supported an end to “sport shooting” or a Dutch legislative regime – which in itself doesn’t end “sport shooting.” The EDM is confused, contradictory and poorly informed. It certainly doesn’t reflect BASC thinking. The last time I contacted Drew to brief him on battery cages he didn’t have the time to see me. His record over the last parliament has been in general anti shooting sports. Christopher Graffius Director of Communications Thank you in anticipation of your response, I do appreciate you taking time to reply Yours Sincerely XXX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I also e mailled my MP, the response I got was; Than you for your e mail regarding my support of the EDM regarding the banning of game shooting. It appears we have a difference of opinion. That was it, it just goes to show you what a complete idiot he is. I would have at least expected a bit more. But then again he is a liberal democrat. Roll onb the General Election so we can hopefully get rid of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I also e mailled my MP, the response I got was; Than you for your e mail regarding my support of the EDM regarding the banning of game shooting. It appears we have a difference of opinion. That was it, it just goes to show you what a complete idiot he is. I would have at least expected a bit more. But then again he is a liberal democrat. Roll onb the General Election so we can hopefully get rid of him. Good on you for trying I got no response after my second mail. He's lost my vote as well as as many other people as I can convince. It's a pity, he's a good constituency MP, but this is important to me and if can't even be bothered to reply, I shall repay his indifference with a vote to sack him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 MC, I think your MP needs reminding of the purpose of MPs! Your opinion counts, you are the constituent - his opinion matters not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 MC, I think your MP needs reminding of the purpose of MPs! Your opinion counts, you are the constituent - his opinion matters not! That is exactly what is going in my next e mail, not to mention the people in his area that would be out of work should any ban go ahead. There are several game breeders in the area as well as several shoots that all put something back into the economy, even the smallest shoot I beat on have lunch and a few beers in the local pub. That wouldn't happen if the shoot didn't exist. I will let you know how I get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radio1ham Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 well i guess the royal family wont like that idea very much , dont they relize that thats the way of life for some people that means all the big estates that have their shoots will loose moneys and there for the goverment will aswell (due to loss of some tax or other ) so what will happen when all the highrarky folk come to visit the royal family etc and cant go on a shoot (dont think they going to very happy are they) shooting has been going on since god knows when and now they want to stop everyone well i say *****CKS to them pardin my french dont they relise that alot of estates make their money that way for the up keep of the lands and pay wages etc but guess they want all the estate workers on the dole then putting more folk out of work isnt that clever of the goverment who says they were trying to get this country back on track but now i have my doubts if they wanting to put people on the dole etc if thats the case they might aswell ban horse racing and greyhound racing as that could be veiwed in a different light aswell making the the horses and dogs run their hearts out , as in a way its the same causing stress to the animals i guess but guess we could rant about this for ever ive said my bit doesnt make me feel any better tho , so i guess il just go shooting again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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