enfieldspares

In reply to the last posting on, yes, an old thread, I think that it depends a lot on the wad AND the heat that the powder behind that wad generates? I have a side by side that is, nominally, 18.4 and with Eley Select 28 gm English #7.5 plastic wads it does after fifty cartridges get fouled with plastic. I never experienced that problem in the same gun firing fifty cartridges with Lyalvale28 gam English #7.5 plastic wadded cartridges.

This. I think only in cartridges where the weight of shot loaded is light yet the cost of the cartridge is as expensive as one loaded with a full charge of the same sort of shot does it make sense. At an extreme that'd be bismuth in .410 gauge or 28 bore. How to explain?Like cheap wine vs expensive wine? That it cost, say, 75p to fill and cork a bottle regardless of the worth of what's in it. The same with cartridges. It costs the same in process time to load a 12 bore as it does a .410 (in fact it costs more to load a .410 likely) so by loading your own .410 you get a real saving as, of course, you actual powder and shot weight is less. In .410 and 28 yes. In 16 maybe? But 12 and 20 no. I don't think there is any saving on any lead shot loadings in 12 or 20 bore once you cost in the cost to you of the equipment needed HOWEVER IF YOU ALREADY HAVE THAT EQUIPMENT MAYBE? Or as below with what we'd call "heavy loads" of larger shot sizes.

Shotgun Wise... Ernie Wise .... Morecambe and Wise....

Janet Jackson "Together Again", Roger Whittaker "New World in the Morning", Beverley Knight "Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda" or best of all but you need to search it so here's a link. Beyonce "The Way we Were".

What? Training to prepare for an SGC application? Eh? And a "Certificate of Completion"? Well given as Leicester City lost 0-4 to Brentford this evening I could do with some light relief so it's not been a wasted post GORDON_R so thank you! https://shotgunwise.co.uk/ Certificate of Completion: Receive a certificate that demonstrates your commitment to safe and responsible shotgun ownership.

Buy a car. You're too easily killed by idiots (in cars) on a 'bike. I had a Kawasaki 750 Turbo for a number of years. Then one day lost it on the M69. Fortunately the M69 then wasn't as busy as it is now and, being tall, I was able to step off the bike and let it go. Recovered it and drive it to the garage and had it repaired. Called in when it was all done, paid the bill, rode it around the block, went back in, put the keys on the counter with the words "Sell it." Never had a 'bike since.

I think the same about side by side only clay shoots. That there would not be enough take up to make them viable. Yes there is an annual one at Markyate but I know of no others.

Well it's time for my Wobbly Wootton story I think. Now dead he was a well liked, nay well loved, member of a shooting club I also was a member of. he was called "Wobbly" as when holding his rifle, or his pistol, it would wobble up and down. He didn't like being called "Wobbly" and one day we were discussing the JFK killing. One member said he had been to the site and that "It was such an easy shot that even you, Wobbly, could have hit him." So apparently it's an easy shot. Anyway "Wobbly" then tells us that in fact in his day he was the best shot in his ship and that he was the one designated to use the issued Ross rifle to shoot the horns on loose sea mines to detonate them. So "Wobbly" had before old age took its toll once been a very good shot. But that's not the story I'll tell of him here today. That story is this. About D-Day. One of the members acquired a .455 Webley Mark VI (this was before the Tory handgun ban) and brought it down to use. The discussion got on to if it was, as reputed a good "stopper" with but one shot as a calibre. Then "Wobbly" spoke. I carried one on D-Day. I killed a German with it. He said that, as Royal Navy, he'd been bringing in a landing craft and then had to wait for the next tide to take the thing off. As he was waiting behind the back of the vessel for the tide to come in he said, a German soldier suddenly appeared from around the corner holding a sub machine gun. "I pulled out my Webley and shot him." He was asked if the gun had fulfilled its reputation as a one shot "stopper". He replied "I don't know. I was so keyed up that I couldn't stop myself and put all six rounds into him."

+1

Where I shoot a number of people have self loading guns as they have issues with recoil from conventional over and under guns. And these are far far better shots than am I. One indeed owns a ground that has well attended twice monthly one hundred bird registered shoots. But I do not think that restricted classes where that day's events were for ONLY that one class would work as the financial benefit to the ground would be nil. The same as, sad to say, you don't see many .410 only competitions. No SCULLY I fear that unless there's money in it that it won't get taken up. The biggest "good reason" for a self loading gun is set to be steel shot and the cheapness of replacing a damaged barrel and I think that of itself would be sufficient good reason. Certain guns for use with bismuth and one or two others as hacks for use day in and day out with steel. Indeed even identical guns. Thus my late father's gun I'll use bismuth but I've a cheap Belgian side by side that weighs and handles near enough the same to use for practice with steel. The same as I will do with my AYA No4 and my Yeoman Ejector. One for alternative non-lead (in its case tin shot) the other as a steel fed hack.

As an everyday comparison look at how some sort called locksmiths keys look when they cut one from your "master" to how a key cut by a proper locksmith will look. Why? Because the el cheapo locksmith lets his machine run on longer before renewing and replacing the parts that wear. Indeed we have maybe all had a key cut that when we get back home either doesn't work at all or feels rough. Because it hasn't been replaced when it was worn. Cartridge loading equipment is the same.

I used to handload pistol cartridges (I use this example for a reason I will explain) back before the Tory handgun ban. These used "lead" bullets. So my use of this as an example. My lead bullets I cast commercially using pure linotype and bespoke Hensley & Gibbs moulds. Weight variation from bullet to bullet of a nominal 120 grains was never more than +/- 1 grain. Some bullets you sampled from other home loafers were widely varying in weight, in metal composition of the alloy and thus variable harness and variable amounts of leading they would leave in the barrel. So the biggest variation from shotgun cartridge maker to maker is the quality of the shot. Soft shot leads barrels and abrades as it gets fired. It also crushes more easily. This means it does not pattern as well as harder shot. Shot hardness is achieved by using antimony. That is expensive. So expensive and better graded shot patterns better. Shot is graded by sieving. As the sieves are used they wear. Thus old sieves allow shot to pass as a #8 that actually is nearer a #7 1/2. Those of us old enough will recall Eastern European cartridges where there was shot like a bag of "runts" sweeties. All shapes and all sizes! Next are wads. Eley so called fibre wads in 1980s Grand Prix Thames board or similar to builders' plasterboard. Cheap. Best wads were always wool felt. Indeed my late father who could have afforded any cartridge he wanted used Sellier & Beloit Mk Ii as it was a better wad even if brown felt it was still properly greased felt. Finally powder. Some powder gives more velocity per grain in a charge at the expense of not being as clean burning. This is the single base v double base argument. Double base powders are more efficient but more expensive but burn cleaner. So we have all see nice clean bored after fifty shots vs filthy dirty leaded bores after a similar fifty shots. So while brand X may to throw 28 grams at 1400 fps and brand Y and brand Z the same there's more to it than that. And that "more to it" is the quality and consistency of the pellets more than anything else and next the amount of fouling left in the bore which, I would argue, is down to wad and powder quality. But shot is the biggest variable

My two, although the lowermost, 16 bore, has now gone to auction. Both late 1920s Manufrance Fusil Robust 28E models. French guns are either cutting edge or almost sublime and superb or absolutely bloomin awful. I've owned one of two. The Unique company made good guns and the MAB P-15 was a better gun than the Browning P-15. Problem is though like everything if you are first everybody says "Wow". Thus the 1886 Lebel rifle. But if you are second or third you get it right. So on the heels of the 1886 came the 1888 Mauser but behind that was the 1895 Magazine Lee Enfield.

Yummy, yummy, yum.

+1 I would assume that the more a ground is shot over that the more there is lead shot in the environment? Then in that case whereas clay grounds shoot with a known "arc of fire" and large commercial game shoots do not perhaps we should ban the use of lead shot from the latter and not the former?