Scully

You’re pretty adept at pointing the critical finger and apportioning blame, not so adept at coming up with solutions. However, I’ll try again. Given that others have already given suggestions, do you have any original suggestions as to what the UK should do?

I know, but you’ve made the claim that clay shooting grounds have the capacity to ‘control the risks’ regarding spent lead shot. That statement obviously means that it is considered there are risks to control. So how does that control sit with those grounds which have already spent decades accumulating lead shot?

I don’t know what is to be gained from pursuing this, unless it’s simply to see how far loads can be pushed before damage occurs, but that damage has been well documented I believe. Hence the need for a fully encompassing steel load.

Not sure I understand the logic behind this. I could understand it possibly if the clay ground ( or shoot ) had just started up this week, but my local clay shooting ground has been on the go for at least 30 years, without a detrimental effect to any species as far as I’m aware. The ‘risks’, if they exist, haven’t been controlled for over 30 years, so what happens regarding the 30 years of accumulated lead shot already deposited?

Thank you.

Ok, I’ll ask again. What do you think the UK should do?

The Americans do seem to have a certain flair for it, but they don’t have the monopoly. I recall reading about a blue on blue between the SBS and SAS during the Falklands campaign.

We used to set fire to small quantities of deformed or for various reasons unusable pistol ammo; all the heat did was push out the bullets and flare a bit. Nothing dramatic.

This.

I’m not a great fan of the term ‘harvesting’ really, much preferring to call it what it is, and with this in mind I’m not too sure we can truly be regarded as conservationists in the real sense either. As for controlling the risks of spent lead shot, clay shooting grounds are located in the open countryside; I shoot on two which take place on mixed farmland, and a third which also has large ponds which are fished and frequented by wildfowl. As for the voluntary transition. Well given the amount of lead shot still being manufactured, bought and indeed shot, plus if the recent findings by Wild Justice and tests of dead game birds are to be believed, I wouldn’t say that’s going too well either. I don’t know of anyone who uses steel as a matter of course while lead is still an option. Do you have any data showing the percentages of shooters who have made a voluntary change completely to non toxic ( except wildfowlers ) for their live quarry shooting?

@Miroku Matt is your man.

Thank you. Not sure how affordable any of that translates to those who own thin walled 12 bore sxs’s, 28’s or .410’s, but I’m sure they’ll be interested. Nor am I too sure how uplifted those who own such guns will be to learn that modern sxs’s capable of using HP steel are now being made, which raises the point yet again that some pretty (once) collectible and possibly heirloom shotguns may become obsolete. Personally, I couldn’t afford to shoot as often or as long as I do now if Bismuth was my only option, and while it isn’t exactly early days regards R&D, time will tell what manufacturers will hopefully develop. There can be no exemptions under the pending legislation as it relates to live quarry shooting.

We’ll never know, but either way working in a war zone is risky business.

Two quid per kilo our dealer pays for Roe. Have no idea if that’s good or bad but I’ve never shot anything because of its value. 🤷‍♂️

What kind of ‘fuss’ would you like ‘us’ to make?

I don’t know what you’re expecting. You appear to inhabit a world of black and white with clear cut and defined edges. Lines are blurred. It’s a war zone. These aid workers and their support teams deliberately put themselves in a high risk environment; courageous without doubt, but people in war zones get killed, including aid workers, journalists, kids in buses or whatever. Innocents like kids have been dying in wars for centuries, why you expect this one to be any different seems a bit naive really.

There is regulation and legislation regarding the processing of game dependant on who the end user is going to be. If it’s for yourself the regulations are pretty simple, but if it’s to be sold for public consumption then as a supplier there are laws to abide by. This is one of the reasons I gave up my CF rifle; loads of deer to shoot but no one wants them and I couldn’t be bothered to register then fork out for kit to comply. As **** law would have it our old game dealer got in touch late last year with a list of everything he wanted, including venison. 🤷‍♂️

It’s a war zone. 🤷‍♂️

It has to. Otherwise live quarry shooters would simply buy trap loads.

Looks brilliant! I am so envious of your weather! We can wear t-shirts in late March, early April too of course, but we’d freeze, get wet, then freeze a bit more. 🙂

Cant say I’ve heard of it. Is it effective and affordable? Available in all calibres? Just had a google: Just Cartridges have them down as 12bore only, 70mm only and the cheapest at 185 quid a slab. So possibly not ‘suitable for the few guns that cannot use steel shot’? Edited again! : Just seen a 67mm load.

Isn’t that a bit of a jump Conor, from conversations including in particular …..’if old guns would become obsolete’ to ‘we have overcome all these challenges’? What ( except for Bismuth ) ‘alternative shot products are suitable for the few guns that cannot use steel shot’?

Thanks, I am aware of this ( having had a couple of pistols worked on back in the day ) I merely meant I wasn't interested enough to ask. Thanks anyhow. 👍

Mate and me watched a lad straight the skeet layout at Westlands some time last year. He was using a Beretta auto he said he’d ‘built’ himself, although I didn’t ask him what that entailed. His girlfriend was buttoning for him and he missed three at his first attempt, then straighted it on the second. Good to watch.

Absolute Billy bargain of the year so far! If I had space I’d snap this up! Good luck with the sale; won’t be there long!