kitchrat

It's all in the head really, if you think you've got the right ammo/choke combination I'm sure you shoot better.

WHAT, I agree with you again??????? And FieldsportTV channel should not promote that he does as it will encourage some of the rest of us to try...

Welcome to the farmers in the south east of England. I have seen a farmer sending up rockets to shift pigeons and spoken to him about shooting them. The standard reply is that he has shooters (are they doing their job??), usually followed by "I have just called him and he's coming tomorrow". I watch the field the next day, blue with pigeons.......... I have also been given the Bum's Rush by a Keeper from a field I have permission to shoot because " the pheasants are coming in next week and I want it to be nice and quiet"!!!!!!!!!!!

Try reading this Dad, hope it's not too much info, it did my head in! NB the shot sizes are US, slightly different. Sorry it's all about smaller pellets, but the principle is there. Clearly, larger pellets will retain energy better and fall less (kinetic energy starts out higher, wind resistance only a small increase - do the maths on mass vs frontal area of a sphere) https://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com/downloads/shotgun_statistics.pdf NB2 Digweed shoots extra tight chokes. That gives him better pellet density at longer range of course.

Fully agree, you need several pellets in a bird to be likely to make a clean kill, with an open choke you MIGHT get lucky and have a hit in the head, a broken wing or something, more likely to get a few feathers (Been there, done that)

Yes, the flea beetle - devastated several fields near me last year. The coating is "said" to hurt bees. I though the EU had had second thoughts on this one though as some farmers sprayed it with the stuff instead.

By chance I did that on Saturday, that's why I felt I could post with some confidence. I shot at 35 yards, with full choke and the pattern almost covered my 36 in plate. - reading my web page diagram again, I have misread it, it says 40 inches at 35 yards, so at 40 yards it would be 45 inches plus. However, you are now talking about effective pattern, which brings pattern density into play - and I fully agree with you. It's estimated you need about 5 pellets to hit a bird to be pretty sure of making a clean kill. The Pigeon Watch Muppet who posted that he could kill almost all birds at 60 yards with a 1/4 choke needed a new tape measure - one measuring real yards not feet!! (hope it wasn't you!!)

I didn't dream this up, see attached file and extrapolate half choke (modified) from full choke diagram. And yes, of course I know that shot speeds fall off dramatically, it's a simplified calculation for Pigeon Watch members to show that different cartridge velocities will not make a huge difference to the lead required. choke spread.doc

I'm afraid I have to pretty much agree with Motty on this one!!! If the target is 40 yards (120 feet) away, a very "slow" cartridge at say an average1200ft/second will take 1/10 (0.1) second to get there. If the pigeon is doing 40 mph, which is 40x1760x3 feet/hour or 58.67ft/sec, in the time it takes the shot to get there he will travel nearly 6 ft. (5.867 to be exact) Sounds reasonable?? A "fast" cartridge, at an average of 1450ft/sec will take 0.0827 sec to cover the 120 feet. In this time the pigeon will have gone 58.67x 0.0827 = 4.85 feet, so it's a foot difference. I have assumed a long shot, a fast pigeon and taken the average shot speed as the quoted muzzle velocity, for a fairly extreme couple of examples. At 40 yards, a medium choke should have a pattern of about 40 inches diameter, so if you were right on it, you still nailed it!

FICKLE - That's what I have been saying for years!

They don't like radio controlled planes either!

That's what they do these days, unless they really WANT that particular field - and they have a lot of choice......

The snow geese are arriving in Saskatchewan!! So will I be in another week!! Ducks Unlimited help us know what is happening... A bit like a technical Pigeon Watch! http://www.ducks.org/migrationmap/

Same here.

Sounds like you are an expert. And, as you have managed to get a Border Terrier to retrieve in your time, you must be a Dog-Training-GOD!!

As you know, I'm always moaning about the lack of shootable pigeons on my patch, Essex/Herts. Well a certain celebrity, not 15 miles away near Chelmsford, is shooting 100's, and a friend of mine (who also knows we have few in our area) shot 100's about 50 miles away in Herts. He says the difference is that these areas are under the control of the shooter, fields are ploughed or left to stubble to order, so birds can build up, they are not over shot by the World and His Wife etc etc. So it's not county to county, but farming/shooting practices that make the biggest difference.

Yes, and I was told it was "pigeon canker" whatever that might be...... http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm032 Now we can all know!

Never seen 1000 pigeons in the last 10 years!!!

My farmers don't even THINK about supplying ammo, I have to lick their boots and beat for them for free for the privilege of protecting their crops. Then they don't tell me when they are cutting or drilling, just complain if I'm not there when they see more than 10 birds. But that's the SE of England, too near London. Loads of potential shooters, some even prepared to pay so I still have to think I'm lucky to have the permissions.

As you say, you get what you pay for. I opened a cheaper non-toxic shell over here (Canada) and the shot size appeared random, all over the show.

We will never endear ourselves to the antis, agreed, however, we don't need to give them extra ammunition. If a section of the shooting community dislikes this "shooting for numbers" rather than for sport, imagine how those already anti will like it! By the way, I like your ID picture, what beer is it? When I'm out here in Canada I have to drive 30 miles in order to be able get cans of "Old Speckled Hen", $3 each or about £1.50 per large can - bargain!!

Good plan!!!!

I see both sides of this argument but am leaning towards Tim's side. Perhaps it's because I have seen the semi-tame reared ducks used as bag fillers, the guns, who have missed most of the "very average" pheasants we send right over them, can now boast about the two "left and rights" they got on the ducks....... I don't know why you say "We deserve everything we get, and rest assured, in time we'll get it. Gordon friggin' Bennett.".Scully, sure we need Guns from the City sometimes to fund the whole thing and maybe even to speak up for us but we don't need to give ammunition to the anti's by mowing down tame birds with questionable shot.

If the crop's not harvested, sit on a milk crate, wearing this fine suit from Saville Row!!

About a year ago I remember Motty teasing me about my "mensa pigeons" when I posted that they were magnet aware........ On my patch they are also hide -shy, if they can see it and even flocked shells sometime get rejected. They are so over-shot (or something) that they sometimes flare away in panic from actual, real live, happy, feeding birds!