kitchrat

OK, so lots of you ridicled my posting on "scouts." Yesterday it was quiet so I did a lot of watching and not much shooting. As JDog also found out, " Lots of birds had a look at 60 - 80m", high up, no folding of wings, no intention of coming in, did a 180 degree turn behind me and went off back where they had come from. No flaring away, not scared, maybe just not that hungry? I was Mr Invisible, cut right back into and under a dense hedge. But why had they come 200m off their original route, just to have a look?? Sorry, but I can't be sure that they later came back with a couple of pals but you never know? I only shot 20 and can't tell one from another. The real reason for this post is what I will call "The stool pigeon" as opposed to scout. On this perm there are a few Stock doves, slightly smaller than a woodie, darker, faster wing beat and no wing or neck bars. They are not on the General Licence so don't get shot. Therefore, they decoy very readily and generally get in the way. However, they are not stupid and, on arriving, untroubled, in the killing zone, soon notice that all the birds are either plastic or dead and that the magnet goes round in circles (and almost hits them in the beak) They then fly off in a hurry. On 10 or 15 occasions yesterday, 1 or 2 doves came in as if they were on a string (like pigeons used to) but drifting about 100m behind were a couple of woodies. When the doves read the situation and took off, the woodies also flared away. This was too common to be a coincidence. Now tell me they don't use scouts, even if it's a different species!!

"Lots of bird had a look at 60 - 80m" - could these be my scouts many of you ridiculed?!!!! Still, 32 ain't bad.

I've seen more scouts than I have "flightlines" in Essex - they went out with Archie Coates. In the winter we get "flock-strings" where a big flock just plays follow-my-leader (like those procession catapillars that you can make go round in circles) but in the summer, Ok they often follow a hedge or a stream valley but so few birds have to travel far to eat that flightlines don't need to happen. No return = no OK = no go there! At least YOU understand!!

Just sit and watch.... You might be surprised how smart my Essex birds are!! Exactly! And if you don't shoot it and he doesn't like what he sees, they don't come either!!

I hate being outwitted by birds with a brain the size of a pea!! Large area of rape stubble near me (mostly not my perm), over the last week they finally started to build up and as fields got cultivated the birds were funnelled towards my bit, the last three fields!! By Saturday there were several hundred on the bottom field. After my success on pea stubble the last week, I get excited and go in. Tiny, hidden hide with a roof in a ditch between the bottom 2 fields,with lots of nettles and grass as extra cover. Nice wood behind, wind on back - perfect! Magnet and a few shells go up, birds still flitting about my end. 1st bird comes in, so I shoot it. After that, it's as is they know I'm there and go up to the top field instead. Out go the flags of hi-viz jackets on sticks. All birds depart for God knows where, any that come back are very wary but as far as I know there has been no shooting locally. Three days later, still no birds (was there no lost seed??, as I certainly had not shot them off!!) and they are ripping iup the field. Have any of you seen them using scouts to check things out? Instead of coming in upwind to feed, odd birds whizz downwind at full speed and "buzz" the set up at low level. they are gone before you can get a shot at them. I've seen a group of 6 or 8 arrive in the area, 7 of them land in trees whilst number 8 does the fly-past. If he gives it the all clear, he goes back for his mates. I have also seen a young bird, heading straight in, get "buzzed" by an adult bird and almost pushed away from my set up. Some pf these birds are really magnet aware! I hate being outwitted by birds with a brain the size of a pea!!

Same here! I then put flags on the other nearby fields and they just did the off's to God knows where...

That's what I'm finding round here too, with the odd exception.

They ALWAYS come in when you are packing up/adjusting decoys etc!!

Zero interest in cut barley round here, make the most of your luck! BUT - schoolboy error!!

30gm 6's in the right barrel, 32gm 5's in the left, choose your ammo according to the target

What spilt grain?? I have taken to crawling about on my hands and knees in stubble fields (If you see me, buy me a beer to cheer me up) and although my eyesight is not as good as a pigeon's I can see why they are not building up. Whilst there's enough spilt to support the local birds, any build up would soon clean it out. Plus, why fly more than 2 minutes when you are OK locally, unless there is a really special draw??

I'm retired, so shooting is what I do - any time I find a chance of a double-digit bag or when it's good diplomacy.

Good luck!! I've not seen a blue field since the winter rape season (apart from a small field of flax that is!) Do the combines in the midlands leave some grain on the field then??

Agree 100%. One of my farms has a clash of interest with the gamekeeper, so I am restricted to one end of the farm. Although I only managed to get 1 good bag and a few dribs and drabs, "my end" of the farm is the only part where the rape did not fail and get ripped up or re-drilled. This point is not lost on a farmer!!

Too much food, no special draw to make them build up.

Thanks Motty, but I've just spent all day trying to follow up my success. I've looked at 100's of acres of rape, rape stubble and cultivated rape stubble plus barley (all three situations) plus wheat (all thrre) plus peas (all three). I've got no beans ripe yet. My best bet for tomorrow looks like cultivated rape stubble, there were a few on one field (40?) a fair bit of movement ON the field (which I suggest means there is lttle food) but little additional coming and goings of birds. I expect to stuggle to get "a pie" (8 birds!!) I'm the Dunmow -Chelmsford area of Essex. I know there are birds there, they just don't seem to be bothered to build up on anything, there's enough food about with no special draw situation?? JK

Maybe 2010 onwatrds, I've found it much harder. As you say about upside down birds, it seems to depend on how keen they are. Yes the birds up here are chased about, the farm managers have only got to see 2 birds and the gas guns come out!! Back in the old days (1999??), I had spent all day trying to decoy on a large block of rape. Whatever I did, they veered off and went elsewhere in the block. Tiny hides in ditches, lying covered up in ditches, they veered away. Then, at close of play they started to play ball. Although they were STUFFED with rape (crops burst up when they hit the deck), they couldn't resist my decoys as they headed to roost. Birds upside dowm, no problem. Gamekeeper turned up on his ATV having heard the noise, I came out of the hide to talk to him and we took turns to shoot, just standing beside the ATV. And they were already stuffed. Makes no sense does it??

I hopeyou enjoyed the Vino Callapso.......

I wish! But, as you found today, it's much less automatic these days to get good bags on stubble. It really is a jigsaw, 1 bit missing = no result. Good luck!

They've been cutting wheat for a week up here - no interest!! Strangely, a rough discing seems to help sometimes. Is this because the chaff cutters cover most lost grain (Pigeons can't/don't scratch) and a roughing up actually exposes more food for them?

Stubbles are not all they are made out to be if no grain is lost, modern combines are too good. Try finding grain left behind - very little usually. If there's any grain lost......

After the last few weeks of frustration and moaning on this forum about how my birds don't build up, don't decoy and premature cultivation of stubbles, you may have thought I was just a Grumpy Old Man!! (Quite right!!) Well, all the reccy work and fuel paid off at last....... Two of my perms have a total of 5 adjoining fields of peas. Last Wednesday, farmer A cut his 2 fields. By Saturday there was very little interest in the stubble as there was very little crop spilt (He has a new, state-of-the-art combine) Farmer B was starting to cut his and birds were feeding on the standing crop - can't shoot it because I'd do massive damage dropping birds into dry brittle pods. He says he will finish it Sunday midday and rip it up on Monday morning, So, with little interest in stubble (it's getting ripped Monday anyway so no time to build up) I decide that the plan is to shoot it Sunday pm after church (there is one nearby!), when the birds coming in, expecting to feed on standing crop, instead of going elsewhere, will be fooled by my decoys into thinking it was business as usual. So I set up under some pylons in the middle, tiny hide, they won't see me. IT WORKED!! Now the excuses- No set flightline so birds could come from anywhere, usually where you are not looking (how do they know?) Many birds didn't commit fully, giving the sort of rangy shot that Big George can hit all the time and Crowman most of the time (Kitchrat SOME of the time) Wind made them swirl about. Wires made them swirl about. Sun in eyes, Erratic shooting, sometimes I can't miss (10 in a row), sometimes I can't hit even the gimmies (5 in a row). However, I ended with 103 picked plus about 10 lost in ditches and hedges where I couldn't retrieve, for under 200 shots. Thank you Lord!! By the way, any upside-down bodies had a big negative effect on commitment (re some previouse post)

Yes. I've seen that and with his wife flying in just behind! Shot her then shot him when he took off, that taught him ,randy S*d

WE know that pheasants don't mind much but most keepers don't agree. Contrats to you for knowing the job and also the bag!

Round here, up to a week, assuming there is enough seed left behind. Agreed they don't mind machines much but so much rape around they need to find a nice quiet field with good food and word needs to get around. (Pigeon Facebook if you like). I've just been watching 5 fields near here, cut a week ago, and they are just getting the message. So is the cultivator driver. Unfortunately it's usually ploughed next day.