Fresh air

Hi Fenny, Dropped you a PM... if you do this again on the 30th would be keen to come... What sort of time do you normally kick off? Cheers

Spotted this thread before I went to Morghew recently and wanted to report back.... I had a cracking day, yes it's potentially expensive compared to some others but where else can you get access to a fully stocked and managed estate and have it to yourselves to work your own dogs across a huge variety of land and species on a pay and go basis? - If someone knows please share with me! We had Heather (one of the gamekeepers) with us all day (our choice, you can say no, although why you would I don't know) and she basically drove us around the estate to various spots where we'd do a couple of beats and then jump in the jeep and onto the next area, over the course of the day we must have done 8 ish "drives" with everything from pheasant, pigeon, wild duck and partridge appearing - that's before we even get onto the duck flight in the evening If you want to shoot the most birds you can do for your money then yes a cheap driven day with no overage might be your best bet, if you want to go to a beautiful estate, work your own dogs and have a good walked up day then I'd highly recommend Morghew... PS - We found a number of duck on the estate but not solely on the reservoir i.e. if you got your bag early then you still had shooting on the ducks...

One view is do we really think the vast majority of dog owners either don't work, or can take their dogs to work - I might be naïve but seems somewhat unlikely... Labs in particular don't need to be with you all day long, barely ever see any talk about "separation anxiety" in labs so I'd ignore the more negative comments flying about...

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/266464-dog-downsides/?hl=downsides I have a dog walker at lunch time - when I do work from home he sleeps the entire day unless I move about - as he has done all day today... it's doable just put the time in and if the dogs not happy look at all the causes as it might not just be alone time...

Agreed with all the above - as a benchmark my £1.2k got me: Whistle trained (back, side, forwards, stop, pick up etc) Heel Return to hand obedience (sit etc) Blind/marked retrieves Land & water What I didn't get: Full steadiness Stop to whistle Big question in my mind is does someone who spends £5k on a fully trained dog have time to keep it trained! - if not breeding from it

Hello - I can give a bit of guidance on this one having gone down exactly the same route nearly 4 years/3 seasons ago! - my original thread here for some background -> http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/266464-dog-downsides/?hl=downsides So long story short I bought a part trained 2.5 year old lab from a gundog trainer/part time keeper in South Yorks - it's worked out perfectly, he is absolutely my dog, no "ownership bond" issues ever - I was lucky that I brought him from a farm/very rural environment to an urban one therefore he immediately looked to me as his protector/alpha as he didn't understand all the lights/people/cars/noises. Level of training was good - the key thing here being to get a full demo and understand all the commands the trainer has used, can't really do a "try before you buy" as they'll only work for the owner if they're there. Need to get the trainer to prove not gun shy etc. I monitored http://gundogsdirect.co.uk/ / http://www.gundogbreeders.co.uk/sale/ a lot and also spoke to 3 Valley Gun dogs about part trained dogs who were incredibly helpful.... as she put it "one persons part trained is another persons fully trained" so it's worth giving her a shout just to have her ask some challenging questions. My dog had always previously been kennelled outside but took to being in the house with no abnormal issues, he's never had a big job inside and only pee'd a couple of times... I now have a year old son and they get on fine as well. All in all I would highly recommend going part trained - I chose that path as like you I didn't have time to train a pup with my work life and with the impending season 6 months away, I use him on the pigeons, wildfowling, for walked up and occasional driven days - he's not the steadiest when it's driven chaos but that's my fault and something I can and will fix this season. One thing to really look into though and which I only realised having seen lots of working dogs over the last 3 years is to understand the level of "heat" or working desire in your dog vs. what you need, mine runs "hot" when in the field which is always a challenge but he literally lives to work which makes training easier as he's so eager to please - he's spent all day today asleep next to me whilst I work but I could just have easily had him hunting up all day rough shooting.... Price wise - you regularly get fully trained going for £2.5k+ which is quite frankly bonkers, I paid £1200 which compared to some puppies plus the effort someone has put into him, I think good value... although again nuts to some people Best of luck and happy to answer any other questions as I looked at part trained for a long time.... will attach a picture too

Hi Mate - there's a bloke who has a lot of land out in Essex, I drive from West London and can make it there in an hour... Land is around Bishops Stortford, PM me if you'd like his number...

Hi, definately no expert either but I got a part trained 3 yo lab about 2/3 months ago and he wasn't returning to hand so I focussed on it the last few weeks, here's what I did in case it helps: When he's bringing it back in, encourage him with however you'd normally recieve him for praise (i.e. I tend to bend slightly and put my hands down to pat him/clap him in - watch how he reacts to this as I would have thought it should "perk him up") If that's still not working or to mix it up try moving back slowly at the same time so he's still coming in at pace and then slow up moving yourself back so he's coming in fast and you can get to praise him and retrieve the dummy before he's slowed up and dropped it (i.e. you walk back and then stop/slow up before he realises he's into a hand delivery) and the main thing for mine was if he got close and then dropped it I'd say "no" clearly and walk back from the dummy, pointing and looking at it, he naturally realised what I wanted and knew the "drill" wasn't over so would pick it back up and return to hand... Sometimes I still have to send him back "on to it" from a few feet to reinforce it Should say that before step 1 I spent a few days just calling him back in for praise so that whenever he comes back to me he knows he's getting some reward Final bit is that I have been rewarding really good retrieves with biscuits and mixing that with general praise to keep him interested Hope that helps! PS - Now onto water retrieving because he loses his ******* mind everytime at the moment!!

You did better than me Captain Sensible! - I got 3 in the end but they just weren't playing ball, i tried everything I could but couldn't get them to decoy plus the numbers were just elsewhere on the farms... Still a cracking day out Cheers

Write up from the 8th: Got there and set up by about 9am ish, birds steady throughout the morning and decoying well, dried up around lunch time although the odd few coming in for a look but with my magnet battery gone difficult to turn - the guns did a good job of keeping them moving around all morning until they naffed off to a field miles away no one was on. All in all great day out, 6 in the bag, 4 got away (god knows how there were feathers everywhere) and a better shot would have easily doubled up but I was jumping on shots not having been out for a while. Hope all the other guns got on well and I'll definately be back - Cheers Duncan

Just to follow up on stage of your dog at, my brothers Weim was 3 when he first went to see Farley, totally bonkers, litterally no gundog training and marginal obedience - through working with him over a few months he learnt a huge amount and when focussed (key part) could make a half decent attempt at trialling - i.e. you can teach a dog new tricks! Good luck

Hi, Don't have an HPR but my brother speaks highly of Andrew Farley of Warrenby Gundogs down in East Sussex, he did some work with him & his Weim... useless on email so just call him... Has some good looking GSPs who are incredably well trained by all acounts Good luck http://www.warrenbygundogs.co.uk/

Cheers for the comments, he's been on Pro Plan athletic for the last few weeks, regular as clockwork & cracking out solid ***** and still the same dog so I'm sticking with that for a while... Taking him out for his first days shooting with me next Saturday, lets hope he doesn't forget all the training!

My lab Tye.... had him for 2 weeks and bought part trained, he's great!

Morning, I'd be interested: Fresh Air - Either (mainly weekend) - Y/N = Sometimes so please let me know and I'll respond promply so that if I can't other people can Cheers

Gents & Ladies - I have made the punge! - I have a 3yo black lab... now for my next question, food: He's currently on Red Mills Racer + ... just wondered what people thought of the various dry foods, I know not to change him over immediately but had noticed that the racer + is meant for racing grey hounds and had quite a high protein content... Over to you for thoughts - he does currently have enormous stools.... I know different foods "come out differently" as well so just as a steer on how it's going through him PS - Photos to follow, or ideally a video of him on a long retrieve!

Hi Fenny - PM Sent, am keen just had a few questions

has anyone actually seen a working weim in the UK? I looked a lot for videos etc but couldn't find any...

Around here (London) they're all asking for £12 an hour.... frigging scandelous!! - You can get some more informal people at around a tenner but nothing less than that if you want it regularly...

Cheers for all the feedback Guys - it's been really helpful, insightful and exactly what I was looking for - funilly enough the lunchtime walker was something my brother flagged as not needing as well, he reckoned with the exercise I'm planning on giving out plus a decent training schedule the dog will be fine all day just chilling - it's something I'll ask the breeder for her views on but if I could save myself a few houndred squid a month that'd be a touch and more money for carts! Thanks again and with any luck, pictures to following in the new year!!

Morning All, Looking for some advice and insight (not vitriol and abuse); I'm seriously looking into getting my first dog, partly companion and house pet but also for shooting, I wildfowl and try and get some pigeons in the summer. My current position is to get a part trained (house trained/basic whistle/obedience) Lab at about 12 months from good lines (have some in mind already). Situation: My position is: Bad - I live and work in London full time. Good - I'm moving to a bigger house with a 50 foot garden and plenty of space for a kennel & run, I have the time and passion to train morning and evening for an hour if needs be, or roughly 30 and 60 mins preferably, I'm a highly active 30 year old and I'm able to get a walker/mate in at lunch times for an hour or so as well, plus I shoot and would be training & working it oh and I can work at home 1 or 2 days a week most weeks. I've spoken to a number of people, owners, breeders, shooters who have said as long as I train and exercise well, preferably kennel whilst I'm out and am prepared to put the time in then working full time and having a good dog is totally fine - on the other hand I've seen pages and pages of rants about it not being ok... Complication: It's my first dog, so just looking for all the downsides of being a full time worker and owning a dog. My wife is keen but on the premise "she doesn't have to do anything that changes her routine" - no comments on that please (I can do that myself!), I just say it to make it clear that this will be my dog and I'll be the one needing to flex to accomodate, She'll come round but sets the baseline that I need to do everything. Recommendation: Over to you guys really - basically what are your views on the above, tell me your experiences, tell me if it's viable, tell me the downsides, the pain in the **** bits, the hidden costs etc etc.. Really looking for some advice please Thanks and as I said at the top, hoping for some guidance rather thant he typical rant of "it's cruel you stupid selfish man... etc etc"

Was plenty of birds around on the 13th (!) and Karl was good at putting us in the right spot; " should have been a few more" = Guilty. Cheers and well worth the trip