fortune82

Well some interesting replies. Firstly its not me who will be doing the shooting. A friend in Scotland has been having trouble with scum coming onto his land and chasing deer and hare with running dogs. I was on the phone to him last week and he was seriously considering shooting the dogs the next time they come. I was left wondering what the legal situation is. Richie10 you seem to have some romantic notion of these people. They are all grown men who are renowned local criminals. They are thieving scum who have no right to be on the land. If I was in my mates shoes I would be giving them no slack at all and if that means the dogs get shot then so be it. For various reasons I do not believe he will be assaulted by them or his property will be in danger. His thinking is kill a few of the dogs and it might get the message across not to bother coming back. As for shooting deer and hare to get rid of them, that sticks in my throat. They are after all on his land and are therefore legally his.

I wouldnt have thought this would be a problem considering there are no footpaths for miles, they are out at night and there is also livestock on his farm. As for burning down buildings / kickings etc I dont think that will be a problem for various reasons! Is it actually illegal to kill a poachers dog though?

A friend up in scotland is having a bit of trouble with poachers coming onto his farm and using dogs against hare and deer. Police are next to useless. What is the legal situation regarding shooting these dogs? Obviously on FAC they are not on the ticket! But a semi auto shotgun with BB or SG would do the job I would think, is it legal though?

A poorly formed opinion at that. How many hard headed dogs have you trained? The profesional advice given to me by two pro trainers was to kick the dog in the side, yank his ear or pick it up and drop it every time it stepped out of line. All this to "get on top" of him! Man has indeed trained dogs for many years. In victorian times dogs were whipped until they were "trained". I have strapped my e-collar to my own neck and zapped myself on full power. Yes it hurts but not as much as a whip or a kick in the ribs. Opinion needs to be backed by experience.

I for one would not like to fire steel shot on a skeet layout! Pellets bouncing off walls isnt good for scores!

Best and cheapest dont go together. You can pick them up on e-bay for £20 and thats all they are worth. I have a petsafe 400 metre model which was about £100 and is worth every penny. What is the problem with your dog? How have you trained it so far? What age is the dog and how much game etc has it been exposed to? I would only consider an e-collar as a last resort after all else has been tried. I used mine to cure the dog bolting after hares rabbits and cats after months of steadiness and stop whistle training didnt work at the moment of truth.

Exactly - the dog has learned the lesson using a different method. A method which I personally consider to be more humane than physical violence, the method recommended by 2 professional trainers. Violence is also a method I see used on shoots and trial events on a regular basis.

Well put. The advice given to me by 2 professional trainers was exactly that. Beat the **** out the dog every time it does something wrong! I have put the collar on my own neck and turned it up full. I would rather have that than a kick in the ribs, yank on my ear or be picked up 6 foot in the air by the scruff and dropped. The thing is all these methods are "traditional" and no where near as cruel as an e-collar!

5 months is way too young to even think about using an e-collar.

Ive got a problem with too many driven pheasants on my shoot. Ill pay you £40 for everyone you can shoot.

Well in that case my dog would never be worked. Months of stop whistle training, visits to a pro trainer and then a spell with him were all for nothing whenever a hare, rabbit or cat appeared. 15 minutes, 2 hares, 2 zaps on a medium setting and the problem is well and truly solved! As far as I am concerned the tingle, and thats all it is, breaks the dogs concentration allowing it to obey your command.

He obviously hasnt been using it properly. The dog should wear the collar without it being used for days at a time. I would guess he has only been putting it on when taking the dog out to work or train. I used to work my dog (in a situation I knew no rabbits or hares would appear) with the collar on but not turned on to avoid exactly the situation your mate is in. The dog should not associate the collar with the shock.

Sounds like a fun site! I think I might register and wind some idiots up!

I had this exact problem. I tried all sorts including several trips to a pro trainer. In the end one thing cured it in about 15 minutes flat. An E-coallr. A lot of people disagree with them but my dog was un-workable because he would bolt after hares and rabbits. I can now use him with total confidence without the collar.

I picked up 250 Eley VIP 32gram no.6 fibre for £45 a few weeks back! Only reason was because a few of the boxes had the tops ripped off the!

Listen to the keeper or who ever is running the beating line. Keep an eye to your left and right and keep in line. Follow others lead basically. If it is a "noisy" beating line then join in. If it is a "tap tap" beating line then keep quiet. Thats basically it! Wear warm clothing but remeber you will probably get hot after a few drives!

Cant help but thinking you are being a bit hypocritical. You shoot game and pigeons whenever possible. Is that becasue pigeons are always causing a problem or just because you like to kill them. Mr fox may well be fine one day but will certainly take someones game or livestock at some point just as your pigeons will one day eat someones crops. As for hunting, I was sad to see it go nationally but not locally where I lived in Scotland. The hunt were a bunch of ***** who regularly caused damage to our shoot. We also had to leave foxes alone to eat our game so they could play chase every so often.

I was talking to the trainer I use about this today. He has trained cockers for trialing for over 20 years as well as specialising in general obedience / aggression in dogs. He was basically saying that when a cocker suffers from rage it glazes over and just goes mental. It is different from aggression caused by dominance etc. As for not having a cocker as a first dog I anit so sure. I have a 20 month old cocker dog who is mad as a brush. It has been a bit of a slog but he is pretty much where I want him now. The main thing I had to learn and remember was I am boss and if he doesnt do as I say at any point then he is going to know all about it. Once this was in my head it was all pretty easy actually. The only point I had problems with was running off and coming back ten minutes later. After a lot of thought and debate I got an e-collar which solved the problem in exactly 15 minutes.

They sound like the A-team! Good luck effectively controlling foxes with a shotgun!

I was always told rage was only in the show lines. As for puppies I think some dogs are bred very hot ie for trialling. I have a dog that is 20 months old now, mad as a brush but so soft. He does have a lot of FTCH and FTW in his pedigree on both sides and has been a bit of a handful, probably down to my lack of experience. When getting another cocker in future I would try to get a more "relaxed" dog!

It was like it! 2 of the shots went through its head the other three through its chest.

I doubt a home made effort would be worthwhile. We have just had one put in at work. It is on a 20 metre pole, 5 metre long blades and so far the best it has produced is 6KW/Hr. That was in a really good wind.

No, it isnt!

I shot a rabbit a few years back which was hit in the head and chest with 5 .22 sub sonic rounds. Each making a right loud "slap" only for the rabbit to keep going. When we skinned it to see what had happened it had a sort of double skin and much more obvious muscles than any rabbit I have seen before or since. It was literally full of holes and missing half its head.

Aside from driving enjoyment you might want to consider how long you are planning on keeping the car and reliability. A lot of these new 6 and 7 speed autos and semi autos have the ECU for the gearbox inside the gearbox where it gets covered in hot oil. The end result is a VERY expensive repair 4 or 5 years down the line when they go wrong. 2 friends have had experience of this on german cars, one cost over 3K.