Newsportshooter Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Easiest thing to do is try it out with some hay bales and put some wallpaper behind them. I am not suggesting what a safe back stop is (it is up to you to work that out yourself). But my 7mm 08 firing a 120 grain polymer tipped bullet at 2800 fps will stop within 1 foot of ice...... Bizzare as it may seem but ice is pretty good at stopping things (the titanic springs to mind..). Try out your ballistics on some 5 litre bottles of frozen water - then put your back stop media in front and increase the thickness until you find a thickness where the bullet wont penetrate (then times it by 2 to be safe) and your somewhere near. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksilver Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 From my own experience with the 17hmr. When I first started to zero my rifle I used a large sheet if ply wood in front of a safe bank. The board was set against a bramble bush and was pretty much free standing. At first I thought the bullets had missed as the board although not supported didn't move when hit. The speed if these small rounds is unbelievable , you will also find yourself firing a large number if shots at the start therefore the section of bale will breakdown quickly. Definately go with something solid behind the bale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hi All After reading this went and tried a big round plastic wrapped bale of straw with my .243 and 22.250 and neither penetrated so a .17 hmr will be quite safe Cheers Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 hope you sealed the silage bale up again afterwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hi All After reading this went and tried a big round plastic wrapped bale of straw with my .243 and 22.250 and neither penetrated so a .17 hmr will be quite safe Cheers Geordie Thanks for that, how much do i owe you for ammo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 The bale will be more than fine. The HMR round is so light it just won't have the energy to push through anything that thick. If it's wet too that will make it even more dense so just shoot it. If it's well packed I doubt it would make it more than a foot or two into the bale. Be realistic, the rounds don't always exit a Rabbit if you body shoot it so there's no way on earth it will go through a bale! This has got me thinking. I need to find a big bale like this to see what sort of round will make it through! I recon most centrefires would struggle unless a FMJ or limited expansion bullet was used. Ten feet of fiberous material is a lot to go at for any calibre. This kind of thing really interests me. In fact there are some old silage bales in a field I shoot, I may ask the farmer if he minds me shooting a few of them as they've been pierced for some time. I can't see them being any use for feed? So who wants to place their bets? Will a 130grn Barnes TSX from my 6.5x55 go through a wet round silage bale? How about two in a row? I recon it will probably do one, but I doubt it would pass through two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hi All After reading this went and tried a big round plastic wrapped bale of straw with my .243 and 22.250 and neither penetrated so a .17 hmr will be quite safe Cheers Geordie mad that,a .222 50 grain round goes straight through a telegraph post at 100 yds and made a nasty hole in mud other side too. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 I should think it would. It seems that bullets will comfortably punch through thin but hard items like steel or wood, but it is more a steady resistance that stops them. Remember you can fire a 7.62 (.308) into a swimming pool and the round won't crack a tile by the time it reaches the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 aye,thats why i allways say,if your not sure,allways make extra sure,just in case,better safe than sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 If I am ever stuck for a decent back stop I use the folding army shovel I keep in the car and dig a small hole, using the spoil banked up behind the hole for a back stop. I place the actual target in the hole when ever I can. I have used hay bales many times, and never had a shot go through yet, but if you are worried just stick another bale behind it. Cooter Back at ya Bro. 'Literally' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 a bale will be fine for HMR. I have seen 165 grain fmj .308 stopped by a round bail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Dog Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 aye,thats why i allways say,if your not sure,allways make extra sure,just in case,better safe than sorry The best advice anyone could ever give. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Thanks for all the advice guys, either way I went out for the first time with the hmr today, I actually found a nice embankment where one of the dykes had been dredged, so I used that. I'm very impressed with the gun, zeroed at 35 meters and hits pretty much dead on at 80, the wind was a bit gusty by then so I didn't go any further out. It very easy to shoot accurately. Was a bit put out how far the spent cases go though through cycling the bolt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 I have to agree with you there codling, it is better to ask and be sure. After all, you can't bring a bullet back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 On my farms I have a large number of very mature oak and beech trees . You know the type with massive root systems above the ground . I stand my target board at the base of the tree among the roots and use it as a back stop for zeroing .22 and .308 . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) Thinking more about backstops, obviously we need to have a clear view of where we are shooting, which brings me to my query. I've used a good backstop for zeroing, but whilst actually out shooting how do you decide? The reason I ask is because my shoot is flat, pretty flat all over but the FLO didn't think it requries highseats or any of that because of how clear the line of sight is all over. Most of shooting will be along hedgerows and some into very large (>30 acres) ploughed fields, how can you have a backstop in the middle of a field? Edited November 25, 2009 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 its a good question and really only experience can tell you more but shooting into the ground on flat land with an HMR is pretty safe to start with a little depends on the angle but what your FEO was meaning was if you can see 500 yards behind the shot you should be fine, these bullets fragment and the smaller the pieces the less energy they contain and the less distance they can travel. At 500 yards you would have to give an HMR some fairly serious elevation to keep the round in the air anyway without it having impacted the ground first. We don't shoot in the direction of houses or roads but if shooting into the ground are happy with a hedge and an empty foeld behind that. Its hard to explain and if it bothers you get out with someone locally who has one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 You have to ensure that every time you take a shot the bullet ends up somewhere safe. Should you miss your target or should the bullet pass through your target it has to have a "safe backstop" to stop the bullet going on. The only way to ensure this happens on a flat field is to fire from an elevated position so that the bullet hits the ground behind your target at a big enough angle so that a ricochet does not occur. Unless you can be 100% sure you have a safe backstop the shot should not be taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 its a good question and really only experience can tell you more but shooting into the ground on flat land with an HMR is pretty safe to start with a little depends on the angle but what your FEO was meaning was if you can see 500 yards behind the shot you should be fine, these bullets fragment and the smaller the pieces the less energy they contain and the less distance they can travel. At 500 yards you would have to give an HMR some fairly serious elevation to keep the round in the air anyway without it having impacted the ground first. We don't shoot in the direction of houses or roads but if shooting into the ground are happy with a hedge and an empty foeld behind that. Its hard to explain and if it bothers you get out with someone locally who has one Thats most useful, thanks, and the post above! I keep thinking of stupid things, and don't want to come a cropper having only just got my FAC, hence my continuous qeustioning on here! Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 You have to ensure that every time you take a shot the bullet ends up somewhere safe. Should you miss your target or should the bullet pass through your target it has to have a "safe backstop" to stop the bullet going on. The only way to ensure this happens on a flat field is to fire from an elevated position so that the bullet hits the ground behind your target at a big enough angle so that a ricochet does not occur. Unless you can be 100% sure you have a safe backstop the shot should not be taken. This makes perfect safety sense too, but, for example, I have a corvid, 70 yards out in a 30 acre field, if the round bounces I can't be sure where its going to go or at what angle, does that make sense? Unless I had 30 metre high hedges no shot would be deemed safe would it? Would a standing shot be perceived as an elevated shot, I presume we're talking about shooting at skylined objects here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner4hire Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Its very difficult to explain what a safe shot is as it comes down to the individuals experience and ability, which makes it very subjective but if you put it into persepective the HMR fires tiny 17gr plastic tipped bullet that disintigrates upon most impacts.... relatively its as safe a round as you could hope for. Using your example, personally I wouldnt rely on a hedge as a backstop - but if there was nothing behind it for a reasonable distance then you wouldnt have a problem if you did get a ricochet. Generally ground is never completely flat though - fields are ploughed or can have long grass or natural bumps and banks - just try to take advantage of the lay of the land and you should be fine, whether standing, kneeling or prone. Ive found no problems shooting from a car onto flat land but wouldnt fancy taking a shot prone on most of my permission because of the surroundings. Shooting sticks are probably a good item to look at if you are unsure as you'll get plenty of elevation and this will help you ensure a safe shot. Just dont do daft things like shoot into trees or at the horizon or towards buildings/roads and you should be fine. Most importantly, as has been said numerous times already, if you are not sure dont take the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Some good useful stuff posted. Shooting sticks, from a vehicle etc all keep the shots elevated as does distance in so much as keeping shots down to a reasonable distance means you are not aiming at the skyline. However don't get paranoid about it just be sensible and get out and enjoy yourself. Posting such questions shows you have plenty of common sense and a responsible attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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