Billy. Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Personally I wouldn't raise it at interview. If you put fox on your application form and nothing's asked, just check with one of the licencing department if it doesn't actually say fox, as they might have mistakenly missed fox from your ticket. However more than likely they class fox as vermin. I don't really want my renewal coming back with fox only listed for my centrefire rifles, all becuase someone grilled the FEO on the actual legalities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 It probably comes down to some people thinking that the HMR can still do the job out to silly ranges. What I can't get to grips with is whether Foxes are vermin or not? I know my force list them seperately which suggests they're not, but then it's not unknown for any force to be wrong or mislead! Personally I think Foxes deserve more respect, but then the HMR is ok in some situations when it's taken at close range or in a trap. foxes are vermin, just a bit bigger thats all, that's why some forces recommend centrefire, they do at least deserve to be shot with something more capable at range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooter Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 My ticket has a long list of what each cal is for, but none of them are Fox, just vermin. The .223 has vermin, ground game, Muntjack and CWD, but no fox. I had this conversation with my FLO a few months before I asked for the .223, and was told that they could not put fox on my ticket for an HMR, due to the ACPO guidelines, but as I have vermin I can shoot fox with it. I only asked for the .223 after a conversation with my RFD, who explained a possible situation as follows. You shoot a fox, but it is not clean, and it runs off in to old Mrs Self righteous’ garden, where it later dies. The RSPCA recover the carcass and they do a ballistics check on it, and they find the fragments of the HMR round. They complain to the police, who check who has clearance on the land, and shoots an HMR, and it comes out as you. They come and take away your FAC whilst they check out the circumstances, and in the mean time you are in possession of an illegal firearm. If you hit it with an approved cal, and it runs, it is just that you made a mistake, but knowing what these anti shooting types are you need to protect yourself. So I would just make sure you have the right tool for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 I don't think Cooter that there would be any issue with acceptable calibers etc if you wound anything you could in theory be done for causing unnecessary suffering. We all know it happens but we don't have an exemption from that side of the law as far as I Know. However it would be very hard to proove and if a fox is a runner who is to say it ran from the nearest farm could have covered miles before stopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonT Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Its force dependant by the sounds of it. I have a 17hmr and I am allowed to shoot fox, I was only granted my fac a few months ago so it won't have changed much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 I think a lot of it is how much the department trust the shooter to do the right thing. When I first asked for Fox on the HMR when I got my FAC they said no, but then I had a long chat on the phone with the office manager about it and it was changed. All I really had to do is say that I understood the problems and that I only intended to shoot them if they were really close or in a trap. I had the 6.5x55 too at the time and at first was told to use that. I said that if they were lurking around the farm house or buildings the 6.5 just wasn't safe to use! They could see why I was pushing them and added it. Using the HMR for Fox is the same as any other rifle really. The bigger calibres are good, but then you wouldn't try to shoot a 1000 yard Fox with a .22-250 would you? It's all about knowing your rifles limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 The alternative top all of this is that you can push for more guns (so says the gun toting american). Clearly NJC didn't handle the situation correctly. If they won't give you HMR for fox around buildings, then you need another gun for that purpose like a small 22 centerfire. The of course you need another gun with more legs for the 'wary' foxes you come across. The 6.5 is just too loopy for that purpose, so you need something faster. Of course the HMR is great for rabbits, but not for ones you want to eat. So you need a 22LR. And another one for night shooting. Two can play the same game... Thanks Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 (edited) The alternative top all of this is that you can push for more guns (so says the gun toting american). Clearly NJC didn't handle the situation correctly. If they won't give you HMR for fox around buildings, then you need another gun for that purpose like a small 22 centerfire. The of course you need another gun with more legs for the 'wary' foxes you come across. The 6.5 is just too loopy for that purpose, so you need something faster. Of course the HMR is great for rabbits, but not for ones you want to eat. So you need a 22LR. And another one for night shooting. Two can play the same game... Thanks Rick At the time I didn't know how to play that game. We live and learn Edit... Funnily enough now I'm starting to wonder if I need all these guns.... But I still keep buying them Edited December 14, 2009 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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