redthunder Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Hi my dog has become naughty and is not listening to the stop or recall whistle but is only when he's out beating and now he's starting to chase birds in the sky. ? in the garden or out rough shooting he seems to be managable but when theres loads of sent and loads of whistles in the beating line he just goes up a few gears and become selective deaf to me ive been offered a electric collar to use but i dont know what to do and before everyone starts saying there band in WALES i do my beating OVER THE BRIDGE so i can use it there whats your thought??:good:??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 In my opinion the electric collar is the last resort, not the first. Spaniels are notoriously deaf in a beating line and as you point out are highly charged, more so than when you are out on your own. This is down to them competing with other dogs - a natural trait. Also, people introduce their dogs into beating before they have a good enough level of control over them. If you can't stop your dog when you are out on your own you haven't a chance of stopping it in a beating line. Before you consider a collar why not try and instil obedience on a 1 to 1 level and then move up to a situation with another dog owner walking woodland, and build up like this? That way you are building the obedience up in a controlled way. Also, I wouldn't advise using an electric collar in a beating line and I'm sure you wouldn't do that. The electric collars need a controlled environment whereby the commands can be given, and understood by the dog without the confusion that is often associated with a beating line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 In my opinion the electric collar is the last resort, not the first. Spaniels are notoriously deaf in a beating line and as you point out are highly charged, more so than when you are out on your own. This is down to them competing with other dogs - a natural trait. Also, people introduce their dogs into beating before they have a good enough level of control over them. If you can't stop your dog when you are out on your own you haven't a chance of stopping it in a beating line. Before you consider a collar why not try and instil obedience on a 1 to 1 level and then move up to a situation with another dog owner walking woodland, and build up like this? That way you are building the obedience up in a controlled way. Also, I wouldn't advise using an electric collar in a beating line and I'm sure you wouldn't do that. The electric collars need a controlled environment whereby the commands can be given, and understood by the dog without the confusion that is often associated with a beating line. Redthunder already said he CAN control his dog when out on his own rough shooting I know him and his dog. Lovely dog works well when out rough shooting. From what hes told me he just goes nuts when the beating gets hectic. Also I know hes tried other things so this isn't the first resort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teal27 Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hi my dog has become naughty and is not listening to the stop or recall whistle but is only when he's out beating and now he's starting to chase birds in the sky. ? in the garden or out rough shooting he seems to be managable but when theres loads of sent and loads of whistles in the beating line he just goes up a few gears and become selective deaf to me ive been offered a electric collar to use but i dont know what to do and before everyone starts saying there band in WALES i do my beating OVER THE BRIDGE so i can use it there whats your thought????? Mine stiil tries to do that now , ive put a 100ft lead on her, she gets a sharp pull back if she doesnt listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 does 100ft lead work well in the beating line then Personally I'd say go for the collar, not only will it stop you going mad but it stops a lot of the falling out with the dog as its not really associated with you. By the time the dog is back its too late to reprimand whereas with the collar you stop the behaviour there and then. With ones you can make beep first you rarely have to shock them as they rapidly get the idea and even then you can statr on the minimum stimulus to get a reaction. Obviously you really need a dummy one for the dog to wear which could be interesting in Wales but nothing anyone can do as its not an e collar. I've seen them work wonders on spaniels particularly ones prone to chasing hares. You can't get too reliant on them and its not a long term thing but they usually work and have instant results. It was mentioned on here a while back that a lot of people have one in the cupboard as once a you sort a young dog you rarely need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Redthunder already said he CAN control his dog when out on his own rough shooting I know him and his dog. Lovely dog works well when out rough shooting. From what hes told me he just goes nuts when the beating gets hectic. Also I know hes tried other things so this isn't the first resort Perhaps didn't make myself clear enough. Start with the dog on its own and work on obedience. This reinforces the basic elements. Then, immediately after introduce another dog and handler into the exercise so that you are creating competition within a controlled environment. It is the competition that is likely to be causing the dog to ignore commands. It does not matter in many cases whether there is one other dog or a dozen. If you can control the dog when another is hunting with it, you are far more likely to achieve success in the beating line. A beating line is in my opinion no place to experiment for several reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Perhaps didn't make myself clear enough. Start with the dog on its own and work on obedience. This reinforces the basic elements. Then, immediately after introduce another dog and handler into the exercise so that you are creating competition within a controlled environment. It is the competition that is likely to be causing the dog to ignore commands. It does not matter in many cases whether there is one other dog or a dozen. If you can control the dog when another is hunting with it, you are far more likely to achieve success in the beating line. A beating line is in my opinion no place to experiment for several reasons. Ive been out with this dog and another and I know redthunder often takes his out with another on the rabbits. The dog is fine with just a few but from what I have heard its just the huge amount of scent and the dog goes on frenzy. Perhaps Redthunder can explain it more when he gets here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redthunder Posted December 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Ive been out with this dog and another and I know redthunder often takes his out with another on the rabbits. The dog is fine with just a few but from what I have heard its just the huge amount of scent and the dog goes on frenzy. Perhaps Redthunder can explain it more when he gets here Alrite Bigthug that's right he's fine rough shooting on rabbits and hedge work when out flushing pheasants and he's even good at pegging a few on the QT when out for a sneaky walk. but after he's done a couple of drives he starts to go crazy and and goes into a real frenzy i dont think any handler would hold him back when there's so much scent around so i think he needs to be zapped a couple of times just to cool him down. I wouldn't use the e collar in the beating line but the keeper has said i could go on a sunday and do some cover crop so he's in the same enviroment as beating with plenty of scent but i can give him a few shocks with the e collar when he starts to go crazy nothing to much as i dont want him to teech him how to breakdance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Alrite Bigthug that's right he's fine rough shooting on rabbits and hedge work when out flushing pheasants and he's even good at pegging a few on the QT when out for a sneaky walk. but after he's done a couple of drives he starts to go crazy and and goes into a real frenzy i dont think any handler would hold him back when there's so much scent around so i think he needs to be zapped a couple of times just to cool him down. I wouldn't use the e collar in the beating line but the keeper has said i could go on a sunday and do some cover crop so he's in the same enviroment as beating with plenty of scent but i can give him a few shocks with the e collar when he starts to go crazy nothing to much as i dont want him to teech him how to breakdance. Sound like a plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teal27 Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 does 100ft lead work well in the beating line then Personally I'd say go for the collar, not only will it stop you going mad but it stops a lot of the falling out with the dog as its not really associated with you. By the time the dog is back its too late to reprimand whereas with the collar you stop the behaviour there and then. With ones you can make beep first you rarely have to shock them as they rapidly get the idea and even then you can statr on the minimum stimulus to get a reaction. Obviously you really need a dummy one for the dog to wear which could be interesting in Wales but nothing anyone can do as its not an e collar. I've seen them work wonders on spaniels particularly ones prone to chasing hares. You can't get too reliant on them and its not a long term thing but they usually work and have instant results. It was mentioned on here a while back that a lot of people have one in the cupboard as once a you sort a young dog you rarely need it. that was meant as atraining aid not while beating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 dont know if this will help...saw 1 of these being used for first time on shoot on saturday and from my point of view it didnt help but recon reason for this was.... guy got dog out put on collar and then when it was not doing as instructed he zapped it,,,,,,ive no problems with this at all but what i did recon was as the dog had never had this on before i cdnt cee how it was going to tell being zapped was meant to stop it doing something i was of opinion the dog would have needed some training at home to know that when it was doing wrong then it got zapped and associated this with bad beheavoir.....then taken out into field and then when it was wrong collar used.....if you get my drift...... prob not...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plinker Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 how old is he ,and at what point during beating does he get out of control ,in the pens? ,in cover? or everywhere he finds birds? it maybe that he is not quite ready for the beating line,just needs some finishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 how old is he ,and at what point during beating does he get out of control ,in the pens? ,in cover? or everywhere he finds birds?it maybe that he is not quite ready for the beating line,just needs some finishing. I think Bruno is about 3 or 4 years old. Hes not a pup lol hes finished. Just getting a bit cheaky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I think Bruno is about 3 or 4 years old. Hes not a pup lol hes finished. Just getting a bit cheaky Some say dogs don't get cheeky. They exploit weaknesses in training and handling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plinker Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Some say dogs don't get cheeky. They exploit weaknesses in training and handling :o thats fair comment, i would use the time on the shoot on sundays dogging in and getting your dog steady before you use him in the line again, there is no instant cure you just have to work on him till he comes right i,m not a dog expert but the most important thing to me with my spanials is to get them steady, and keep them there, and it does take work, but its worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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