roblade Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 ok folks from the number of recent threads about increasing power levels in variouse rifles ITS NOT BIG AND ITS NOT CLEVER! (unless you have an FAC) I put a reply on one of the threads asking WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A .50 SNIPER RIFLE AND AN AIR RIFLE RUNNING AT 12.5F/Lbs. the answer was NONE AT ALL IN THE EYES OF THE LAW. Im glad it amused some of you out there who thought it was funny, but it really wouldnt matter which rifle you were found to be carrying, you would face the same charges in a court of law If you are caught with a rifle that is found to be above the 12F/lbs limit there are no two ways about it you are in some seriouse ****. It carries a mandatory 5 year sentance! there are no ifs, buts or maybes about this. ACCURACY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POWER. if you want to get better groupings, if you want to be able to shoot further JOIN A CLUB! the experiabce you would get from a club WILL increase you bag size. if you want a rifle with a nice flat trajectory running at 20% faster than a .22 get a .177 its faster and flatter. ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clone Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Nice post, and for the record i do not wish to spend any time in a 6 by 6 cell, and do not intend on increasing the power of my rifle, if i want more power i will get a FAC and buy a rimfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabit Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 12ft/b dose me just fine. FAC sounds like to much truble... Nice post, and for the record i do not wish to spend any time in a 6 by 6 cell, and do not intend on increasing the power of my rifle, if i want more power i will get a FAC and buy a rimfire me to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 if you want a rifle with a nice flat trajectory running at 20% faster than a .22 get a .177 its faster and flatter. ROB Only problem with a .177, particularly in pcp is that it uses the air far less efficiently than the .22. Not going to get involved in another boring debate on the subject of the 12 ftlb limit, I've already tried to make the point that it's yet another futile limit with no reference to safety, it isn't adopted anywhere else in the EC. I doubt if the ******** who shot the baby had his gun checked by police, if it had been and was over the "limit" he could have been given another 5 years in pokey by all accounts. I doubt very much whether a case brought against a responsible airgun user with a gun innocently producing 12.5 ftlbs would be viewed in the same way as someone with a .50 sniper rifle with no FAC. Even in this ridiculous society someone would be able to see the total disparity in destructive power. You are very unlikely to get your gun checked anyway unless you are somewhere you shouldn't be doing something you shouldn't be doing. By constantly banging on about this restriction we are self regulating our sport with no improvement in safety, morons will still go out and buy airguns to commit crime as they are still doing with handguns which are now totally illegal !. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilv Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) How many foot pounds was the handgun that was used to shoot a woman in the head at a christening party last week? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4193250.stm The fact that hoodie wearing yobbos carry REAL firearms with impunity about the streets - use them to rob and murder the rest of us, and that the incidence of such things is rising exponentially, demonstates the utter stupidity of hand-wringing about stupid airgun limits and whether joes airgun is .5 of a foot pound over the 'pea shooter' limit. I mean - get a life for Chr*st's sake. The scum of the earth are robbing, raping, molesting and mudering joe public and his wife and baby - often armed to the teeth with handguns of 500 to a thousand foot pounds of energy, and people here are anxiously wringing their hands about whether their pea shooter can propel some never used brand of pellet at an extra 10 feet per second (the difference between 11.9 and 12.2 foot pounds - a fast walking pace in other words). As if there were'nt real issues for the police to deal with.... Heard the one about the men in black who tied up a young mother with wire, kicked the **** out of her, dragged her into the same room as her 4 month old baby and set the place on fire? It happened not too far from here - I doubt checking the airguns of respectable citizens is terribly high on the agenda around here at the moment. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/4196944.stm Buy a legal airgun, don't mess with its insides and bl00dywell shoot the thing safely in a place where you have permission! That's what you got it for, and nobody cares as long as you don't do something ridiculous with it. Right - I'm off to get some rabbits. Edited August 31, 2005 by Evilv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Buy a legal airgun, don't mess with its insides and bl00dywell shoot the thing safely in a place where you have permission! That's what you got it for, and nobody cares as long as you don't do something ridiculous with it. Right - I'm off to get some rabbits. And that ladies and gentlemen sums it up. To a 't'. Nicely put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted August 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 rooster I coldnt agree with you more about what you have said, but at the end of the day, the police might not want to do anything about a rifle running slightly over the legal limit, but thier hands are tied when it comes to firearms offences. And unfortunatly in this day and age legislation is very unlikly to be changed in favour of more powerful airguns being unlicenced and germany has laws even worse than us thier NON FAC air rifles run under 6F/Lbs! Canada 500fps or a limit of 5.7 joules (approx 4.5Flbs) poland very similar to this country with the 12F/lbs limit. Spain are limited to 18F/lbs BUT NO HUNTING!!! France pretty much alowed anything as long as its not rimfire, but has to be declared at the police station. BUT NO HUNTING!!! Cyprus ONLY .177 alowed! no energy restictions but you must have an FAC. hunting is allowed but woiod pigeons are classed as a game bird and need a lisence which alows you to shoot them on Sundays and Thursdays between Nov and Jan!!!!! so i think that puts us pretty much around the middle of the pile, but with a lot of countries having banned the use of air rifles for hunting (which includes pest control) I think others would say that we are pretty lucky to have the laws we do. ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Well said guys, in my opinion, it is not the done thing to go over the limit. That is exactly what it is, a limit! I don't doubt that the local constablury will use the law to good effect if in the first place they want to test your rifle. A rocky path will be walked if you are over. If you are found to be over the limit by just a small amount i.e. .1. or .2 then it would be down to a court hearing and a good breif. And when all is said and done mandatory does not mean minimum. But would you honestly want to risk it, I personally would not. My lounge may not be the biggest in the world but it sure beats a cell and I get to go out and shoot rabbits every week! As for those who think FAC is not worth the hastle. You should get to a club or envolved with people that are experienced with FAC in the field. It can be an eye opener and offer different types of shooting as well. There are obviously tighter laws governing the use of FAC rifles but a lot of these should already be a consideration when using a 12ft/lb rifle anyway (Back Stops, Footpaths, quarry, storage, etc.). With the legal limit air rifle you are given a little more freedom use wise and purchase wise. But getting back to the thread, unless your rifle is on an FAC ticket, don't let it run over the legal limit. Regards, Axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 first I decided 12ftlb was not worth the bother now have no air weapons less than 30lbs that I use for rabbit. obviously on a ticket? it was not a hardship to get a few slots in fact if you have the reason and I presume in this instance we are specifically talking vermin? then you already must have the land etc so in reality nothing should stop you applying and subsequently recieving an fac for an air weapon if you so desire one? as for the horror stories of 5 years being a bitch for someone? in reality unless ther ARE other factors a prison sentance is very unlikely? case I know of 3 recent ones 12.9 logun S16 end result confiscation and crushed? air weapon discharged in public and over the top (not sure how much) rws excaliber end result fine and crushed latest one TWO breaches of holding a weapon without fac one gun a handgun second a bsa lightning (must have been played with that one) chap from Chilton now on bail awaiting judgement? but note bail is not normally given in firearms offences if a prison sentence is to be given? It is also worth noting that the 12lb limit was set arbitarally by UK manufactures as an impasse to stop US gun supply ie they dont bother over there? and we/ UK greed merchants wanted the buisiness of air rifle supply stitched up? the power limit had ball all to do with "kill power" anyway like I said if you need and have genuine use for an air rifle get an fac for a start the guns are cheaper a damn sight more effective and humane and you have something in your back pocket that rules out the need for constant cal checking with a chrono to prevent the "mandatoty" five cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 I doubt very much whether a case brought against a responsible airgun user with a gun innocently producing 12.5 ftlbs would be viewed in the same way as someone with a .50 sniper rifle with no FAC. Even in this ridiculous society someone would be able to see the total disparity in destructive power. You are very unlikely to get your gun checked anyway unless you are somewhere you shouldn't be doing something you shouldn't be doing. By constantly banging on about this restriction we are self regulating our sport with no improvement in safety, morons will still go out and buy airguns to commit crime as they are still doing with handguns which are now totally illegal !. Well said Old Rooster and i for one appreciate your honesty where not being able to achieve an 100% kill rate is concerned Good straight to the point talking ,Same goes for you EVILv Kw ,Spot on with the FAC it is more effective and humane and in the correct hands as near to 100% kill rate as humanley possible I like that straight talking from fellow hunters:thumbs: Cheers Ive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High velocity Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 EAR EAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 The law worrires about airguns. I would worrie about all these powerful crossbows on the market in the uk. U dont need a licence for a crossbow that could easily kill som1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 found this on another airgun forum: Muzzle Energy and the law. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for your e-mail. The law in relation to airguns is quite clear. Airguns, air rifles and air pistols are exempt from the certification requirements, if they are not of a type declared specially dangerous by the Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969. These rules provide that any air weapon is "specially dangerous" if it is capable of discharging a missile so that the missile has, on being discharged from the muzzle of the weapon, kinetic energy in excess, in the case of an air pistol 6ft/lbs or, in the case of an air weapon other than an air pistol, 12ft/lbs. However, I understand your concern in trying to keep within the laws, and getting the best out of your firearm, and will give you as much information as I currently have on this subject. It should be noted that it is most unlikely that Police would bother with an investigation into the legality of an air weapon, unless the shooter had come to Police notice regarding his use/possession of that firearm. Pursuing such matters would not be high on the agenda of an already over-stretched Police service, unless they were forced into such an investigation by other related issues, such as a complaint from the public about the shooter. Such an investigation requires seizure of the firearm and a costly forensic examination to prove it's capability. Having been asked the question before regarding how Police test air weapons, I can give you the details in respect to The Metropolitan Police Service, but this procedure may be different in other forces. Suspect air weapons are tested using three different pellets, thus providing data spread over a wide band width. They are.... (1) Eley Wasp, (2) H & N diablo Spitze-Kuglen, (3) R W S Hobbys. They also test any pellets seized with the weapon. In the case of borderline results, (say 11.9ft/lbs in the case of an air rifle), the airgun is retested using individually weighed pellets. Any Single Reading above the prescribed limit makes the weapon a section 1 firearm. Even in such cases, prosecutions would normally only be proceded with, if it was thought to be in the public interest. I hope this has been of some help to you. It may be of interest to you to read for yourself the Home Office guidance on this subject. It can be found as a PDF file at the Home Office web-site at www.homeoffice.gov.uk. Section 2.26(1) of this file would be a good place to start. Information contained in this reply is given in good faith and without prejudice, based on our interpretation of the current UK firearms legislation. Notwithstanding this, enquirers are advised to contact their local firearms licensing authority before taking any course of action. Best regards, Mick Wheeler. Metropolitan Police N/E Firearms Enquiry Team. www.met.police.uk/firearms-enquiries should point out that was dated 2003 so you may possibly get a slightly different answer if asked again now. ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Look lads If your gun is UNDER PERFORMING then take it to a COMPETENT Gunsmith who knows what he is doing and will no doubt set it up for 11 FT LBS to allow for different pellets . If your not sure , GET IT CHRONOGRAPED to find out by a COMPETENT Gunsmith and altered if necessary should it be over the limit with using your desired pellets. FOR PIECE OF MIND TAKE YOUR GUN TO COMPETENT GUNSMITH,,,,,,,,,,,DO NOT TINKER ABOUT WITH THE BLOODY THING YOURSELF. : This advice has already been mention by people ,more experienced than myself already. Cheers Ive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debaser Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Hello, Thought I'd give my two pence worth. My TDR is putting out 10.5Ft/Lbs, I'm well happy with this as it gives me lots of piece of mind. My view is people should worry more about training themselves to shoot then 1 or half a ft/lb! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 My view is people should worry more about training themselves to shoot then 1 or half a ft/lb! Wise words indeed. Now all I have to do is take heed of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.