mick miller Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Dear all, I recently purchased a used but nearly new CZ 452 .22lr style from a reputable gun shop. First time out the rifle fired when releasing the safety catch, sending a round into the back of a stable block (I was unloading the rifle at the time and had removed the magazine and flicked the safety off to open the bolt and remove the chambered round). I put this down to user error, although certain I hadn't touched the trigger. Second time out I was lining up for a bunny shot, flicked the safety off and the rifle went off, sending a round god knows where into some woodland. The rifle then got put back in the cabinet till the end of the festivities as I'm not happy about using it till it gets looked at. I can recreate the problem easily after a little investigation, the process is as follows; cycle the bolt (magazine empty) to 'cock' the mechanism, apply the safety catch then lightly pull the trigger and release, it's now set to go off when I flick the safety off and sure enough it does. When I say lightly I mean a light pull or any movement rearward on the trigger itself. Now it'll be going back to the shop soon as, as it's still got a 3 month warranty, they can either repair or refund and I'll have to send my licence off for a variation if the latter applies so I can get another .22lr. Question is has anyone else ever experienced this with a 452? The bolt seems to have a bit of wear on it, more than I would have thought 500 rounds would have caused, but then the trigger seems very light too. Could it be that the trigger has been adjusted and set too light? Any advice appreciated. Meantime it's time for the .17hmr bang stick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobyb525 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I've used a cz style hmr all night lamping and used the safety repeatedly all night without any issues I will keep an eye on this as I'm due to get a 22lr style at some point this year, will be checking for this problem as soon as I get it now so thanks for the heads up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I'd imagine a new one would be fine, certainly every 452 .22lr I have used before buying this one for myself has been fine. I guess this highlights the trouble with buying a used rifle (even one sold as being virtually like new), you never know what the previous owner has mucked around with! I suspect this is whats happened either that or they've swapped the bolt over for a worn one? I'm no expert so it's hard to tell; all I know is that in it's current state my .22 is not fit to be taken out of the cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 This rifle has a potentially dangerous fault . Do not use it again untill checked over by a compentant gunsmith . Sounds to me as the sear is worn and the trigger is disingaging with minimal pressure . A truly dangerous happening . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Don't worry Harnser, I'm sufficiently frightened to NOT use the rifle again until the seller has repaired it. Is the sear to be found on the bolt or the trigger mechanism? When I look down the barrel with the bolt removed I notice a small black rod and then the top of the trigger arm sticking up, they both appear to be okay and exhibit little wear, the bolt however seems to be very worn in places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I have never heard of this, but would be interested to hear what the fix is. Try and measure the trigger weight it may be that is has been adjusted way too light, but it would have to be silly light to go off that easily. If it was mine I would also strip the bolt and just check there isn't anything untoward in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 The sear is what holds the striker back and is released by pulling the trigger . Some idiots will play around trying to improve the trigger pulls by fettling the sear to obtain a lighter and crisper pull . Do not ever try this ,as the tuning of triggers is a specialists job . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Hmmm... I'm leaning toward pushing for a refund and sending my licence back, either that or they can completely replace my bolt for me. It still set me back £320 so not that far off a new price. I wish I'd just bought new now as I did with the .17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 If it is that new a purchase I would take it back on safety grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethevanman Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Maybe as harnser said, sometihng to do with a slipping sear? I have neve rhad this happen with my 452, and I have had the trigger lightened, but my gunsmith says he never makes them too light for safety reaosns, I just like to have my trigger light enough so that I cant notice a "pull" that is heavy Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Trigger seems set to 1lb 8ozs (according to the Ruben Heaton and packing string test )... That seems light too light to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Even worse, if I cycle the bolt, turn the safety on, lightly pull the trigger, let the safety off and give it a light slap, guess what? Oh boy, I'm actually getting quite heated now. I could have seriously injured myself, something or someone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I'd suggest that maybe the previous owner fitted a brookes kit or did other similar adjustment work to the trigger. I've always been warned that once work has been done you should repeatedly mess around with the safety, slam the bolt and be generally rough with the gun to check it. It seems that the safety trick is showing you it's been set too lightly or too fine. I'd take it back and get it sorted. The CZ triggers aren't that complicated so as long as no material removal work has been done to the parts it will probably be easily tunable back to how it should be. I wouldn't get rid just yet as it could be a load of bother for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Mick , You should check the trigger set screw that is located at the very base of the trigger wher e the base of the trigger goes into the trigger mechanisim . This screw allows you to ajust the weight of thr trigger to a certain degree . Most of these screws have a lock nut attatched to the screw to able you to make sure the screw is locked in postion . If the screw is loose or has been unscrewed to its limit than this could cause the problem . If thats the case then you need to screw it in further . You may have to take the stock off to gain access ,but thats no big deal just a couple of bolts . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baz870 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Hmmm... I'm leaning toward pushing for a refund and sending my licence back, either that or they can completely replace my bolt for me. It still set me back £320 so not that far off a new price. I wish I'd just bought new now as I did with the .17 i have 452 varmint .22 had no issue at all wid safety or the bolt bought new 5 years ago still fine!! sounds maybe someone been messing like stated in previous posts?or maybe faulty part, the gunsmith should repair what ever is wrong as its not safe. let us know how you get on please. cheers barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JA3llis Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 your trigger should be set at 3.5lbs for a sporting rifle mate. My guess is lie stated above someone may have fitted a brooks kit with a sear tube thats to tight and a trigger spring which is too light. When I bought my rifle i did the drop test and it went off so as soon as I found this out i opened the trigger up removed the sear tube and fitted the heviest trigger spring now it pulls at 3.7 lbs and shoots amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Take it back to where you bought it and demand its made safe as it seems someone has been playing with it . Do the drop test infront of them and ask them if its safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIVERD Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) A pal of mine had this exact problem with the same rifle. He had had the rifle for about a week, a good used one and he decided to clean it fully before using it. This cleaning included removing the rifle from the stock. After it fired twice upon releasing the safety (the first time we were unsure if he had been touching the trigger) we took it back to the shop and the fix was quick and easy. The problem was a simple bar/rod that the trigger pivots on. This is what you are seeing wih the bolt removed. The rod goes right through the mechanism. when cleaning he had obviously knocked it so that it was not all the way through the mechanism. It was through one side, through the trigger but not through the other side and the result of this was basically a hair trigger. It was sticking out one side i guess 3-5 mm, and although this sounds a lot it was not easily noticable. Once we noticed it it was quite obvious, and at an angle The shop were great (Sloans of Inverurie). They stripped and cleaned the whole gun again, stripped and checked the bolt and safety as we had wrongly guessed this was the problem. The bar cannot move when the gun is in the stock, so cannot jump out, but if you have given your one a new gun clean and taken it out then this sounds like it could be your problem. The gun is now 100%, never given a problem again and is used very regularly. D Edited January 1, 2010 by DIVERD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Lets face it-the 452 is pretty much bullet proof so somewhere along the line someone has played with the trigger.These rifles are renowned for the agricultural trigger so messing in this area is a popular pastime.My grief would be with the dealer-he has sold you a potentially lethal gun that could easily have killed someone standing next to you-lady luck was the only thing that prevented a tradgedy.As the seller it was his responsibility alone to check the gun was safe and fit for purpose-money back?-i would be demanding a damn sight more than that or i would be contacting trading standards-do not give him the gun until you have reached an agreement.Just imagine if one of yours, or someone elses ,kid was standing next to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) I'd suggest that maybe the previous owner fitted a brookes kit or did other similar adjustment work to the trigger. I've always been warned that once work has been done you should repeatedly mess around with the safety, slam the bolt and be generally rough with the gun to check it. It seems that the safety trick is showing you it's been set too lightly or too fine. I'd take it back and get it sorted. The CZ triggers aren't that complicated so as long as no material removal work has been done to the parts it will probably be easily tunable back to how it should be. I wouldn't get rid just yet as it could be a load of bother for nothing. i thought this straight away..as the flicking of the saftey pointed to this.i would do as the above has stated and not use it until it is safe to use..all avenues of drop test,banging the butt with the palm of your hand to check it and with the rifle not going off.(unloaded of course) Mick , You should check the trigger set screw that is located at the very base of the trigger wher e the base of the trigger goes into the trigger mechanisim . This screw allows you to ajust the weight of thr trigger to a certain degree . Most of these screws have a lock nut attatched to the screw to able you to make sure the screw is locked in postion . If the screw is loose or has been unscrewed to its limit than this could cause the problem . If thats the case then you need to screw it in further . You may have to take the stock off to gain access ,but thats no big deal just a couple of bolts . Harnser . if this is the correct procedure for this gun(only know the 452 varmint),then it will be easy to sort if your competent enough. Edited January 1, 2010 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulABF Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Straight back to the shop with it. No messing as you're carrying round a potential death trap there. You're well within your consumer rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 i thought this straight away..as the flicking of the saftey pointed to this.i would do as the above has stated and not use it until it is safe to use..all avenues of drop test,banging the butt with the palm of your hand to check it and with the rifle not going off.(unloaded of course) if this is the correct procedure for this gun(only know the 452 varmint),then it will be easy to sort if your competent enough. They are all basically the same gun (American, Varmint, Style, Silhouette etc) the only difference is the stocks and the barrels. They all share the same trigger, bolt and safety. If you know someone with another CZ it may be worth trying their bolt in your gun but to be honest I think the suggestions regarding a badly done Brookes trigger spring replacement is the answer. In the Brookes kit you get four springs, 2 of which are really way too light for a gun used for hunting, bad choice of sear tube is likely to make the situation even worse but they do both address different parts of the trigger pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Thanks folks, I've cancelled my days beating and will be taking the gun back tomorrow AM. It's quite a schlep from my house to the shop (not a local one) so if it's not a quick fix I'll opting for a full refund. I've taken the barrel and trigger out of the stock and compared it to my spankers .17; the adjustment nut on the .17 sits up from the base by about 4mm, the .22 has been wound down to the base, making the trigger dangerously light, you can actually see that the slight pressure on the trigger releases the sear and means that as soon as the safety is released the gun fires. I'm not prepared to tinker any more than that. As far as I'm concerned the rifle as sold was potentially dangerous and I expect the shop to have the problem fixed FOC or a full refund given. The pins all appear to be in the correct position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 They are all basically the same gun (American, Varmint, Style, Silhouette etc) the only difference is the stocks and the barrels. They all share the same trigger, bolt and safety. If you know someone with another CZ it may be worth trying their bolt in your gun but to be honest I think the suggestions regarding a badly done Brookes trigger spring replacement is the answer. In the Brookes kit you get four springs, 2 of which are really way too light for a gun used for hunting, bad choice of sear tube is likely to make the situation even worse but they do both address different parts of the trigger pull. just learnt something,thanks. was unaware if triggers were different and i erred on the cautious side. al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polski Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I had the same problem after fitting a Brookes trigger kit, worked faultlessly for 18 months(wasn't set too light either) then started to get slam fires, I removed the tube and have had no problems since. Rick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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