SXPhil Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Very well run course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Very well run course CPSA Cash Cow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 (edited) So now you have a badge to show that you know not to point a gun at someone EDIT: Not to take anything away from Phil for getting this badge for his club to get insurance but..... could someone tell me if anyone has ever failed the CPSA safety course? ..... if only perhaps to show it's not a cunning ruse for charging people a fortune to provide a certificate on the obvious Edited February 13, 2010 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SXPhil Posted February 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 (edited) LOL Edited February 13, 2010 by PhilSIDC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 So now you have a badge to show that you know not to point a gun at someone EDIT: Not to take anything away from Phil for getting this badge for his club to get insurance but..... could someone tell me if anyone has ever failed the CPSA safety course? ..... if only perhaps to show it's not a cunning ruse for charging people a fortune to provide a certificate on the obvious I did it a couple of years ago and a few people fell short of the pass mark. They were talked through the points they didnt understand and were made to reanswer the questions until they got them right. If your cheque clears - you pass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodit Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 I can only comment on industrial safety courses, in industry the idea of most safety courses is that you attend the course and come away from it safer in the job that you are doing. Most have an exam at the end of them as its one of the easiest ways to quantify how much you have or haven't learnt. So in a way the instructors going over the questions attendees get wrong is not a bad thing in itself, remember its not competition its education. And if you have had to go over something 2 or 3 times you aren't going to forget it. But if you just cannot grasp the concepts of safe behaviour or operation of equipment (in this case gun handling) you should then fail. Oh and well done for gaining the pass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Does everybody pass? The purpose of any good course is to achieve 100% pass AT A HIGH STANDARD. The CPSA courses have excellent course material and well trained presenters. The course uses presentation, practical, and examination to bring home the key points. Yes, in my time there have been failures, but from the tutors point of view a candidate failure is a failure of the course to educate. Learning the bleedin' obvious? As soon as one believes one knows everything in safety and there is nothing new to learn, you might have become a dangerous cynic. Having presented safety courses to more than 5000 people over a 15 yr period I never failed to learn something new on every course I ever taught or observed. When it comes to safety, we should never stop seeking to expand our knowledge and experience. Cash Cow? Why do people think this? Any-one who has been on a management training or commercial course knows full well that the commercial cost is £200 to 500 a day or so, and often with candidate / tutor ratios of as much as 30 to 1. CPSA Courses are half or a third of commercial training rates, and have staff / candidate ratios of 6 : 1 or better.The courses ARE ALL subsidised from HQ. True running costs of all CPSA courses is at least twice what is charged. The charge made covers the training material supplied ( but not the development costs), the venue and food, and a modest fee to the senior tutors. No charge is made for HQ full time staff, tutor development and training, and tutor materials. The courses fees are designed to break-even on average on just the direct course costs without any HQ charges. The CPSA Safety course is excellent value for money, and recommended for any-one serious about their shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Congrats on passing..My 10 Pence worth as someone who has just passed an intense 2 day safety course with the UKPSA, only a fool would pass someone who was wasn't competent to wear that badge, and only a bigger fool would wear one that didn't deserve it, I have no doubt that both instructors and recipient deserved it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 (edited) Okay, so because it's such a great course no one fails, everyone pays although it's really great value for money. Blimey it just makes you wonder what did people do before courses like this and just how did everyone get by / survive? Edited February 13, 2010 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 (edited) Okay, so because it's such a great course no one fails, everyone pays although it's really great value for money. Blimey it just makes you wonder what did people do before courses like this and just how did everyone get by / survive? This is the point though. A company I once worked for had a problem with guys going on various ad-hoc H&S courses with a trianing provider and they were coming back quite often with absolutely no idea of the equipment they were supposed to be using. I was sent as a stool pigeon to investigate and attended one of these courses as a candidate with a group of guys from another region in the company structure so no one knew me. The course started off with the instructor saying who has used one of these before??? As with all courses you will get an honest response from 50% and the other 50% will reluctantly raise their hands so they dont look like numpties. The instructor says 'Thats good, I don't want to be here all day as I am sure you lot don't'. He waffled for 15 minutes about all types of general tat such as the weather, cars and the naff hotel he was staying in. All the guys were then on there way after signing the attendance sheet. 24 employees on an 8 hour duration course at a cost of £95+ vat per candidate-Not a bad score for the day is it for 20 minutes work and a bit of paperwork?? Not to mention 24 employees out of work for day, expenses and travelling costs incurred to the company for them to end up with a day off in the boozer. End result- After they were all gone I stayed behind and told the instructor who I was. I then enjoyed a little bit of jaw dropping and one lost training contract. The truth is to most employers Health and safety training is looked on as another sort of business tax these days-Often you are not teaching anyone nothing more than they already know but to a certain degree in the event of accident, a paper trail of training and certification goes some way towards covering your backside a bit. Woe betide you if there is an accident and there is no training or evidence of, its hang you out to dry time. The company then sent me on an instructors course and I ran certain elements of company training. Only thing was I did'nt last long either as I was considered 'Incompatible for the role' after there was a complaint from an individual after running one particular course. I made a chap who was pretty slow on the uptake sit at the front of the room and changed his name plate from 'Brian' to 'Dodo' He still failed...................... Edited February 14, 2010 by starlight32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinistercr0c Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Is that not Munglers point though?? You have just stated that it is more about covering your '***** with a paper trail which shows you or your company have passed all relevant H&S regulations than it is about, for example understanding how to handle a loaded firearm. What persists me off, is the fact that genuine accidents can and do happen, but unless you have that certificate you are potentially up shiate creek without a paddle regardless of whether all reasonable precautions have been considered. It is a case of guilty until proven innocent. You all know the scenario...'Where is the risk assessment relating to this event?' Risk assessment for christ sake, you might as well risk assess breathing or getting out of bed in the morning, or eating an egg and cress sandwich 'Taking into consideration the requirement to eat this sandwich in order to sustain ones life, the risks involved have been determined as follows: 1. Allerigic reaction to substances contained therein 2. Choking hazard 3. Freshness of ingredients Pertaining to point 1. - The recipient of the sandwich has been fully allergy tested privately through BUPA - Egg, cress, wheat, bran, milk, yeast, salt Pertaining to point 2. - The recipients family have all been trained in the Heimlich maneovre and emergency tracheotamy procedures Pertaining to point 3. - The ingredients have all been sourced with certified producers and all relevant items production times checked Just eat the goddam sandwich. Oh, and well done to the OP for passing....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Okay, so because it's such a great course no one fails, everyone pays although it's really great value for money. Blimey it just makes you wonder what did people do before courses like this and just how did everyone get by / survive? That was before the days of "No win no fee, little Jonnys scraped his knee at school lets sue the ar£e of the local authority" era.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 or indeed what do we do before Euro regulations etc.... The point is, no one fails but everyone pays the course provider. Incidentally, who sets the contents? Who decides whether it's a 1 week course, 1 day or 1 hour course? My suspicion is that it could be done in an hour, but you couldn't go charging everyone a bundle for that now could you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I attended this course a few years ago,safety officer-basic instructor.The first thing they were interested in was the cheque,the hardest thing about the course was actually turning up,the test paper was so basic,anyone without any shooting experience would pass with flying colours in my opinion a waste of time,sounds to me the only thing to change on the course,is now you get a metal badge,it use to be a woven-cloth badge BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SXPhil Posted February 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I attended this course a few years ago,safety officer-basic instructor.The first thing they were interested in was the cheque,the hardest thing about the course was actually turning up,the test paper was so basic,anyone without any shooting experience would pass with flying colours in my opinion a waste of time,sounds to me the only thing to change on the course,is now you get a metal badge,it use to be a woven-cloth badge BB You get a woven badge as well and a certificate and a really nice lunch!! Some truly divided opinions here Well from my perspective its still quite amazing to see some peoples gun handling but hey ho I beneifited from the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I bet you are really glad you mentioned it Phil Well done either way fella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SXPhil Posted February 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Cheers Pal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Does everybody pass? The purpose of any good course is to achieve 100% pass AT A HIGH STANDARD. The CPSA courses have excellent course material and well trained presenters. The course uses presentation, practical, and examination to bring home the key points. Yes, in my time there have been failures, but from the tutors point of view a candidate failure is a failure of the course to educate. Learning the bleedin' obvious? As soon as one believes one knows everything in safety and there is nothing new to learn, you might have become a dangerous cynic. Having presented safety courses to more than 5000 people over a 15 yr period I never failed to learn something new on every course I ever taught or observed. When it comes to safety, we should never stop seeking to expand our knowledge and experience. Cash Cow? Why do people think this? Any-one who has been on a management training or commercial course knows full well that the commercial cost is £200 to 500 a day or so, and often with candidate / tutor ratios of as much as 30 to 1. CPSA Courses are half or a third of commercial training rates, and have staff / candidate ratios of 6 : 1 or better.The courses ARE ALL subsidised from HQ. True running costs of all CPSA courses is at least twice what is charged. The charge made covers the training material supplied ( but not the development costs), the venue and food, and a modest fee to the senior tutors. No charge is made for HQ full time staff, tutor development and training, and tutor materials. The courses fees are designed to break-even on average on just the direct course costs without any HQ charges. The CPSA Safety course is excellent value for money, and recommended for any-one serious about their shooting. Jerry, What happens if you don't rejoin the CPSA? Is the safety officer course only valid while you are a member? If so the it is a Cash cow because to keep your qualification you HAVE to be a member. With a professional qualification you take it with you wherever you work etc. Also isn't it a requirement of a CPSA affiliated club to have X amount of safety officers per amount of members? Or in other words a licence to print money. I am very serious about my shooting and also know what is safe and what isn't. While you are correct in saying we should never become complacent we also don't need a badge to be safe. Well done in your Achievement though Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 You get a woven badge as well and a certificate and a really nice lunch!! Some truly divided opinions here Well from my perspective its still quite amazing to see some peoples gun handling but hey ho I beneifited from the day As long as you enjoyed the day and benefited from attending,thats the main thing mate BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bg55599 Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 I have a feeling i may well have been sat next to you! I did the course the same day. not a bad course at all. I will do some other CPSA courses after this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SXPhil Posted February 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SXPhil Posted February 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymc Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well from my perspective its still quite amazing to see some peoples gun handling but hey ho I beneifited from the day I agree with this. Even though I have not done the actual exam, I managed to get my hands on a safety officers manual and I have to say that the manual is very informative and useful. Coming from a background where I learned everything from my Dad where the only place we shot was out in the fields, I found the manual very useful as it highlighted things you need to be aware of and how to conduct yourself on a clay pigeon ground. Things like how to carry a gun properly if it is out of its slip - I bet quite a few members don't do it right (me being one of them) Well done to the OP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) Jerry, What happens if you don't rejoin the CPSA? Is the safety officer course only valid while you are a member? If so the it is a Cash cow because to keep your qualification you HAVE to be a member. With a professional qualification you take it with you wherever you work etc. Also isn't it a requirement of a CPSA affiliated club to have X amount of safety officers per amount of members? Or in other words a licence to print money. I am very serious about my shooting and also know what is safe and what isn't. While you are correct in saying we should never become complacent we also don't need a badge to be safe. Well done in your Achievement though Phil anyone can do the course, non members pay more.....i still think its a cash cow though as you cant get cpsa insurance for the club without cpsa safety officers.....oh and you also have to pay a yearly fee to be an associate club otherwise no insurance... mine runs out this year as its a 5 year duration.....dunno how much it is to resit it, im no longer a member.... oh and just for interest 3 people on my course failed and had to be "re educated"..... shaun Edited February 17, 2010 by shaun4860 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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