deadeye ive Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 As for the Airarms S410 'its an ugly peace of **** with a short barrel' why the hell would i want that? Statements made then retracted through the Edit facility eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimic Posted October 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 (edited) As for the Airarms S410 'its an ugly peace of **** with a short barrel' why the hell would i want that? Statements made then retracted through the Edit facility eh I didnt come here to argue or be insulted by a fool... I have better things to do with my time like getting laid, maybe u should try it some day Who cares what you know or what you think you know I wasnt aware it was a compition...... I just want some decent guns and forgive me for not liking the same ones you do...... But we all have our own tastes and mine is for PCP repeaters.... Edited October 9, 2005 by mimic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant.mass Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 (edited) If you do your home work (and i know im going to open a can of worms on this one) but no PCP rifle can fire any pellet faster than the speed pf sound (1120fps) due to the speed air expands once leaving the resevoir, ben taylor has offered a prize for any one that can bring a rifle to his shop and prove it, Hi m8 i know a PCP gun that can do over 1120fps it is made by my m8 he’s the one that makes AWT SILENCE i have seen the fps test sheet on it and it is true. and i shot the gun in question. and yes ben has offered a prize to any won that can prove it the prize is £1000. Edited October 9, 2005 by ant.mass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB REYNOLDS UK Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 you dont need a fac for bisley magnum pellets ..they are by far the best pellets to use in a fac gun the two tins you show in your first post i still have some waste of time far to heavy for a air rifle unless its pumping out 80lbs the bisley magnum pellets will be ok up to 45lbs with out blowing the skirt on them .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimic Posted October 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Would love to see a high speed film of a airgun pelleting breaking the sound barrier, That would really be something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Mimic her are a cuple of questions that might help u have soem idea of what sorrt of rifle would suit you best: 1.what are you going to use the rifle for? 2.what range do you want out of it? 3. how much do you want to spend? are you lookign for new or second hand? 4. do you hold a current FAC? 5.are you a member of an FAC rated club? (either FAC air rifles or centre fire). 6.Do you have land to shoot on? 7.if so, has the land you have prmision to shoot on been approved for FAC shooting? 8.are you goingnto be hide shooting or rough shooting? 9.do you want slf contained or PCP rifle? PS. as for my comment about being a muppet, i stand by that until im corrected or proven wrong any reason no answers given for these? do you want us to help you? you want to show your not a muppet? ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dexon Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Is it the shape of the pellet that stops a pellet going faster than sound? Just curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimic Posted October 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) Is it the shape of the pellet that stops a pellet going faster than sound? Just curious its the shock waves , its just to lite thats the problem breaking the sound barrier is like hitting an invisible brick wall, when this lil tiny airgun pellet hits it , the result is it knocks out lots of energy and causes the thing to spin out of control or tumble The pellet is not prevented from going past the speed the sound with enough power it will go supersonic, it is the affect that breaking the sound barrier has on the little pellets flight...... As i say its like hitting an invisible brick wall. what happens is that as it aproaches the speed of the sound the Air infront of the munition or object is no longer able to get out of way fast enough, This results in compresion or the start of the sonic shockwave as the speed increases so to does the compresion untill the munition is Forced past this barier (1120 fps) creating your sonic boom... Edited October 10, 2005 by mimic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Mimic i thin you ight be living a little in clouds. If you do your home work (and i know im going to open a can of worms on this one) but no PCP rifle can fire any pellet faster than the speed pf sound (1120fps) due to the speed air expands once leaving the resevoir, ben taylor has offered a prize for any one that can bring a rifle to his shop and prove it, and to the best of my knoledge the prize is still on offer with on one walking out any richer for trying. (and i stress the word pellet, and not projectile! as a felt pad will exit the barrel in excess of 1120 fps i think) As far as im aware there is only one rifle that you can buy off the shelf that is able to shoot anything accuratly and above 1120fps and thats the theoben elliminator! as for needing a heavy weight pellet, there is no need for it almost all FAC air rifles work best around the 30-40F/lbs mark and the current pellets out there are more than happy to be run at this power level without effecting accuracy to any noticable extent i.e. 16.4 grain AA field at 30F/lbs will give raged hole groupings at 60+ ayrds as long as you can shoot. An FAC air rifle would have a maximum range of 75-100 yards after that your into the realms of rim fire. Not to mention the fact that an 80F/lbs air rifle wil give you a maximum of 10 shots (gun power stealth) before needing to be re filed. So i will refer you back to the post i made on you pistol question, where i said you shoud have a long hard think about what you want from a rifle before even thinking about which rifle or which pellet would be best. I think you might be better off going for a .17hmr and forgetting about the air rifles, its powerful and accurate as well as offering little chance of ricochet so very much in favor with most FLOs. ROB think ben and his professor? are the only ones still going with the theory that the sound barrier cant be broken? didnt some proffessor reckon a bee cant fly in theory? cheers KW http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70658 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 i warned you it was a can of worms PML ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimic Posted October 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) lol indeed Edited October 10, 2005 by mimic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 and yes ben has offered a prize to any won that can prove it the prize is £1000. When my gun was returned by Air Arms after it,s service it came with back with a report or Data Sheet done on their system /chronograph Prog Target Tronics etc!. It showed FPS and Muzzle Velocity which when compared to the RFD,s Chronograph showed an ENTIRLEY different set of readings and yes the input data concerning pellet weights was correct. My point is that the Chronographs used by the Manufacturers are oviously more sophisticated and sensitive at higher velocities than maybe you or i could buy or afford . Has anyone claimed this reward yet and if so could anyone please enlighten me Ive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimic Posted October 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) Has anyone claimed this reward yet and if so could anyone please enlighten me One small point... Anyone wishing to claim the price would need to have an FAC.. there is a very large number of people who cant take part. (most uk airgunners) I can however explain how a pcp gun is able to do it, Its actualy alot more simple than youd expect The air is not forcing the pellet out of the gun in the way you think , The pellet is infact being sucked out of the barrel by the lower presure outside. This means its being Pulled by negative presure not accelerated at the rate of the presure behind it. its not the rate the air is released, But the diference in presure between the front and the start of the barrel, think of it like a blow gun in reverse, the higher your presure the harder the front of the barrel sucks on the munition Its easy to test to if you presurise your barrel infront of the pellet to the same presure as the output from your gun when you attempt to fire it the pellet will not move Edited October 10, 2005 by mimic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I can however explain how a pcp gun is able to do it, Its actualy alot more simple than youd expect The air is not forcing the pellet out of the gun in the way you think , The pellet is infact being sucked out of the barrel by the lower presure outside. This means its being Pulled by negative presure not accelerated at the rate of the presure behind it. its not the rate the air is released, But the diference in presure between the front and the start of the barrel, think of it like a blow gun in reverse, the higher your presure the harder the front of the barrel sucks on the munition Its easy to test to if you presurise your barrel infront of the pellet to the same presure as the output from your gun when you attempt to fire it the pellet will not move That's it! I am going to study quantum physics as an introduction to airgunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant.mass Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 (edited) this is from the man him self ben taylor Its some sort of law I was quoting and it also says that if the outlet port is a special venturie shape you can cheat this law by a few fps but as our PCPs have valves and in many cases right angle bends to negotiate it would seem this is not relevant. Now a good gas ram can far exceed the speed of sound as the violently compressed air is heated to 800-1000 c and reacts more like a cartridge than an air rifle at these levels. Years ago at Theoben I did some tests for one of the Universities in Cambridge and I shot PTFE slugs from a.22 Eliminator at 1600 fps but the R7 only managed about 1100 no matter what, with the same slugs of PTFE. You will get to hear a sonic crack sometimes when you are very close to the speed of sound but with a PCP you most definitley will not exceed it unless its not air you are using........Ben. you can find out more by going here Edited October 11, 2005 by ant.mass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimic Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 this is from the man him self ben taylor Its some sort of law I was quoting and it also says that if the outlet port is a special venturie shape you can cheat this law by a few fps but as our PCPs have valves and in many cases right angle bends to negotiate it would seem this is not relevant. Now a good gas ram can far exceed the speed of sound as the violently compressed air is heated to 800-1000 c and reacts more like a cartridge than an air rifle at these levels. Years ago at Theoben I did some tests for one of the Universities in Cambridge and I shot PTFE slugs from a.22 Eliminator at 1600 fps but the R7 only managed about 1100 no matter what, with the same slugs of PTFE. You will get to hear a sonic crack sometimes when you are very close to the speed of sound but with a PCP you most definitley will not exceed it unless its not air you are using........Ben. you can find out more by going here ever heard of Desiling ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant.mass Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 yes i have m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 ever heard of Desiling ? and your point is???LOL do you have any idea the difference between a gas ram and a spring rifle? like i said every post you do makes me laugh so much you say you have a large collection of rifles that you dont want the goverment to take away from you, yet you seem to be one of the least informed people i have ever known when it comes to air rifles. ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimic Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 (edited) ever heard of Desiling ? and your point is???LOL do you have any idea the difference between a gas ram and a spring rifle? like i said every post you do makes me laugh so much :o you say you have a large collection of rifles that you dont want the goverment to take away from you, yet you seem to be one of the least informed people i have ever known when it comes to air rifles. ROB :o Well lets see now One has a nice Gas ram that compresses air behind the pellet :o One has a spring inside That compresses air behind the pellet :< Ok now whats the diference you ask me, well theres two main advantages with Gas ram One its internal presure allows it to discharged Quicker than a spring. Two it doesnt get naffed up if you leave it compressed As for volocity When did i ever say a PCP was faster ? My point was only that simply by desiling a gun you increase the speed of the airflow by a great deal, Apply this to an Fac rifle with one of ant.mass's PTFE pellets. Edited October 12, 2005 by mimic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant.mass Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I've just looked on that Airguns BBs site think i'll give that one a miss Are these lads using Chronies in the £30 price range where i imagine the cheap technology used is'nt good enough to measure these velocities If these chaps say it can be done then may i make a suggestion 1,Apply for FAC which costs £50 by joining a Rifle Club which probably cost around £100 2,Take gun to Theoben and back up your mouth by proving it can be done and collect your £1000 3, With the remaining £850 book a holiday and go on the pi** For the second time of asking does this reward still stand or as it been collected :o Ive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimic Posted October 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 (edited) im pritty sure it has already been collected... Edited October 17, 2005 by mimic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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