Remote Collers

[UKPoacher]

is the 'twitch her behind' not the same as using a low level stimulation on the collar?

 

collar's are'nt the big electric shock's everyone think's they are and some of the setting's are probably less of a twitching than a bit of willow/heel stick

 

Yes it is a distraction. I have no problems with using an e-collar in the right circumstances. In your case you are using the collar incorrectly IMO. The problem is actually when the dog lifts her bum. You are actually using the e-collar as a recall aid after the problem has escalated.

[Lloyd90]

Think about it from the dog's point of view. She is wanting to maximise efficiency. It is inbuilt into hunting animals that the longer they leave the hunt the less chance of success and therefore survival. By breaking she is maximising efficiency. If you were to shoot your gun forward, turn round 180 degrees then send her in the direction that was previously behind you, her breaking would be inefficient. If in training you shot one way, then sent the dog left, right or back she woudn't know which way was maximising efficiency and so would stay and wait for directions.

 

Another way is to tether her and make her 'sit'. Ask somone to stand behind with a long willow wand and to let you know and immediately twitch the dog's behind every time it comes off the ground. Your job is to reinforce the 'sit' verbally immediately he tells you she's lifted. Once she knows that lifting her bum means correction she will become steadier.

 

 

WWOOOAAHH!! its ok to give them a "twitch" as you say (Aka smack on the **** with a Willow) But not a small shock from an E-coller ??!

 

Seems very contradictary to me

[pegleg31]

Yes it is a distraction. I have no problems with using an e-collar in the right circumstances. In your case you are using the collar incorrectly IMO. The problem is actually when the dog lifts her bum. You are actually using the e-collar as a recall aid after the problem has escalated.

 

 

as i only bought the collar this year after my season had finished and have only had it on my dog to find the correct setting for stimulation i fail to see how i'm using the collar incorrectly?

but if however i carry on the way i've stated,by keeping her tethered,collecting shot bird's closest to me myself and only sending her for bird's if she's behaved.and then i'll use the collar the way i've been been told to use it i'll hopefully have a rock steady dog.

[PERCE]

so perce how would you advise me to train without a collar?

 

as i've stated my right leg is ****** so running is out of the question.my dog is well trained in all aspect's except when she's on the peg!!!.i've tried every thing nothing work's she's great and steady as a rock until i have a gun in my hand.

there's no point in scalding a dog for coming back to you.as i can't get to her quickly enough i bought one to break her attention,hurting her is out of the question.

 

i'm sorry to say collars have a place if used correctly and you've explored other avenue's.i've already offered to meet up with someone to see if i can help with their problem's before resorting to a collar

 

But it's not your dog we're talking about, it's an 11 month old pup, *** it's still a baby at that age. At wits end with why an 11 month old pup legs it? All stones unturned? Give me a break.

I've an open enough mind to realise there is a place for use of the e-collar on a dog but it has to be under the guidance of somebody who really knows how, why & when.

 

UKPoacher has already written about your dog but my first question would have been - is your dog 100% proofed in your shooting situations with you handling it & other people shooting for you?

[pegleg31]

But it's not your dog we're talking about, it's an 11 month old pup, *** it's still a baby at that age. At wits end with why an 11 month old pup legs it? All stones unturned? Give me a break.

I've an open enough mind to realise there is a place for use of the e-collar on a dog but it has to be under the guidance of somebody who really knows how, why & when.

 

UKPoacher has already written about your dog but my first question would have been - is your dog 100% proofed in your shooting situations with you handling it & other people shooting for you?

'

 

 

if someone else is shooting and i'm handling my dog it's a different story.i'm 100% concentrating on my dog if she move's i check her.admittedly she still tries it on but i can control her.the problem is when i'm shooting on my own,she know's she's got 'a window' and she's off.

 

but as you've stated i'm not sure i'd put a collar on a dog without exploring a few other route's as it's more than likely it's something the handler is doing wrong than the dog.like i've already said for the first year of me owning the dog i went for 1-2-1 lesson's with a proper gundog trainer,and i go back when i hit problems.the collar was recommende to me because of my leg

[UKPoacher]

BigThug, Please read all my posts properly. It answers all your concerns about using e-collars and is not at all contradictory.

 

Pegleg, Your disability is not an issue in this matter. The problem is when the dog's bum lifts from the ground. At that time the dog is at your side. You are using an e-collar as a recall tool, not to stop the dog running in. Read your posts; the problem is with you not the dog. An e-collar is unnecessary for this situation.

[al4x]

the main issue here is the difference between caring dog owners who don't necessarily want a dog that is a robot and the dog takes it one step too far. There was an interesting piece in the shooting times about a famous spaniel trialler who had recently had to give up and his quote was he and his dogs have never been happier. If you want to train every bit of personality out of your dog then it sounds like Perce has just the technique, Bigthug as a backup you can almost think of a collar as a long lead and no one would have issues of you yanking that when the dog fails to recall its just an e collar you can do it without danger to the dog and also have a backup in case of bolting near roads. Its 11 months old it is going to get a bit excited on game its a long learning curve but sounds like you are going about it in a responsible way

[PERCE]

the main issue here is the difference between caring dog owners who don't necessarily want a dog that is a robot and the dog takes it one step too far. There was an interesting piece in the shooting times about a famous spaniel trialler who had recently had to give up and his quote was he and his dogs have never been happier. If you want to train every bit of personality out of your dog then it sounds like Perce has just the technique, Bigthug as a backup you can almost think of a collar as a long lead and no one would have issues of you yanking that when the dog fails to recall its just an e collar you can do it without danger to the dog and also have a backup in case of bolting near roads. Its 11 months old it is going to get a bit excited on game its a long learning curve but sounds like you are going about it in a responsible way

 

Couldn't find Shooting Times article online perhaps you can post a link? I'd suggest his current dogs still have a far harder training / living regime than mine ever will, they go play with other dogs down the park? You're kidding. Did find this on the Shooting Times website http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/news/449610...of_collars.html

My dogs, training the personality out? Again you're kidding, right? My dogs are 3 very different individuals but they have to have one thing in common, I'm the boss. They're not kids you know, dogs need a structured environment, you can't let them go play in the park with the fluffy dog one day & then say not allow it when it's the devil dog the next, they can't think at that level. The advice I gave BIGTHUG was to help him make his dog focus on him, he has to be the centre of his dogs universe, without this he'll never have a dog that's 100% in the field.

[UKPoacher]

the main issue here is the difference between caring dog owners who don't necessarily want a dog that is a robot and the dog takes it one step too far. There was an interesting piece in the shooting times about a famous spaniel trialler who had recently had to give up and his quote was he and his dogs have never been happier. If you want to train every bit of personality out of your dog then it sounds like Perce has just the technique, Bigthug as a backup you can almost think of a collar as a long lead and no one would have issues of you yanking that when the dog fails to recall its just an e collar you can do it without danger to the dog and also have a backup in case of bolting near roads. Its 11 months old it is going to get a bit excited on game its a long learning curve but sounds like you are going about it in a responsible way

 

It's not about making your dog a robot. It's about making your dog understand what it can do and what you won't allow it to do. Pegleg's dog doesn't magically go from sitting at his side to running away. There is an interim period where it breaks from the sit position. That is the point where it needs correcting, not after it has began to run in. If he gave the e-collar remote to a friend with instructions to zap the dog the second it lifted its bum then that would be good practice. Using an e-collar to stop the dog after it has began to run in only demonstrates that he doesn't actually understand the problem. All he is doing is damage limitation. The dog certainly will not associate being zapped with breaking from the sit position.

 

If he understood the problem he could use other techniques to solve it without resorting to an e-collar.

[pegleg31]

Uk poacher i've just read through my post's nowhere have i said i'm using it as a recall.

 

here's my second post

 

as i have a leg that does'nt work properly i bought one to correct the dog as soon as it does something wrong.not when i catch up with her or she come's back(to late then )

 

as i stated earlier i''ve had 1-2-1 lesson's with a couple of gundog trainer's and both recomended the use of a collar for my situation.if you asked me how i've been told to use the collar you might not of jumped to your own conclusion's

 

all the best

 

Russ

[UKPoacher]

Uk poacher i've just read through my post's nowhere have i said i'm using it as a recall.

 

here's my second post

 

as i have a leg that does'nt work properly i bought one to correct the dog as soon as it does something wrong.not when i catch up with her or she come's back(to late then )

 

as i stated earlier i''ve had 1-2-1 lesson's with a couple of gundog trainer's and both recomended the use of a collar for my situation.if you asked me how i've been told to use the collar you might not of jumped to your own conclusion's

 

all the best

 

Russ

 

as i've stated my right leg is ****** so running is out of the question.my dog is well trained in all aspect's except when she's on the peg!!!.i've tried every thing nothing work's she's great and steady as a rock until i have a gun in my hand.

there's no point in scalding a dog for coming back to you.as i can't get to her quickly enough i bought one to break her attention,hurting her is out of the question.

 

right i can go and stand next to a guy shooting and be on top of my dog,she won't move.it's as if she know's she's got a split second to get away when a lift my gun,then it's to late.

 

Russ,

You said; " as I can't get to her quickly enough I bought one to break her attention" The conclusion I am drawing is that the dog only breaks from the sit when you take your eye off her. That is what you said previously. If that is the case then by the time you realise this and press the button it is already too late. You need to apply the correction as soon as her bum leaves the ground. That means watching her closely with the button handy or asking some trustworthy person to do the honours. What I believe you are doing is applying the e-collar as a brake once you realise the dog has broke from the sit and is starting to run in. That is effectively what you have said.