foxes

[albob]

was reading a thread about if fox cubs have been seen and noted the part by herfordwmj(hope you don`t mind me mentioning you for the purpose of this thread and is not a dig at your comment) and i was curious about what he said and what others thought about this subject.as it has been something that i find strange and so i thought i would start a separate thread for a possible answer,so hope you can enlighten me.

i`m not talking about the shooting of the foxes,only the part about keeping the numbers down by foxes.

 

this statement....place is overrun with rabbits but,the foxes keep the numbers down.

 

that always gets me wondering,how they came to that conclusion because if mr fox was that good,why is it overrun. :blink:

we would not be needed if that was the case where their are foxes.

overrun means to me that they are not as good as they say they are and being overrun helps the fox have a better chance of catching a possible rabbit.

food for thought(for the fox as well .

i mean foxes will take an easy meal,if given the choice,so as rabbits are not going to stay put for mr fox,then he has to work hard for so little gain in a healthy population of rabbits,as not a lot will be weak(if young are included,then they come under easy meal) because if they take out the weak,then only the stronger ones are left,so making it harder for mr fox to get his meal?

seen a field full of rabbits and i would say overrun with rabbits(not my shoot,just a one off visit to see it for myself as being overrun with rabbits)and i fox came ambling through and at no stage with all these rabbits about did it take or go for a rabbit,so i can only think that it was checking out for a weakness in a rabbit when they scatter.still leaves the fact that their was a lot of rabbits on there.

so is it just a myth or an excuse?

cheers

al

Edited April 13, 2010 by albob

[Paul@Ribchester]

Al, does that mean you need a hand with the rabbits?:blink:

[albob]

sorry if it seemed that way but,no.

it started from a thread i read and the foxes keep the rabbit population down.

i wish my shoot was over populated but,no chance of that the way i shoot.

al

Edited April 13, 2010 by albob

[ollie]

Seem to agree with you Albob. Mr Fox will always go for the easy option; whether this is eating carrion, frogs or worms he will always make the most of what he can get, he is an opportunist. Obviously he will kill the odd rabbit, but he will soon learn after a few chases whether it is worth his while or not. I live beside the coast and quite often the foxes will feed along the shore when the tide is out on crabs etc, so they have quite a varied diet.

[albob]

cheers ollie,the part about the foxes on the coastline was interesting,as i have never heard them do that as i live inland.

 

cheers

al

Edited April 14, 2010 by albob

[grasshopper]

Foxes like to ambush their prey,when they know a rabbit has seen them,they simply move on instead of wasting time and effort chasing it.

 

NV is wonderful for observing this type of behaviour and i`ve seen it on lots of occasions.

 

Seen foxes walk within 10yds of rabbits and not even "appear" to look at them.They will be checking though!

 

Seems that with the rabbit up on it,s hind legs,it`s a message to the fox that "you`ve been spotted" and a message to the rabbit that "i`m safe because he knows he`s been spotted"

 

I personally think it`s a myth that foxes will keep rabbits to an acceptable level..although i,ve not left the foxes alone long enough to find out on my patch but i,ve gone onto new land with plenty of fox about and it,s been overrun with bugsy too.It always needs human intervention to sort out the numbers

Edited April 14, 2010 by grasshopper

[ollie]

I think personally that fox is harder on Hares than he is on rabbits. Obviously Leverets are more at risk as they aren't under ground and in the area where we have pheasants the Irish Brown Hare seems to have made an amazing recovery as we are keeping the fox population down.

[albob]

some intersting stuff,thanks for the input.

makes you look at the fox a whole lot differently with the above comments.

cheers

al

[Ozzy Fudd]

i used to think the same, but have started to come to a different conclusion. last year i saw several foxes in an area over run with rabbits, the farmers told me leave them be so i did, i reckoned they were taking a few out but not clearing them all. then tonight i was out lamping i spent 20 mins trying to call a fox in. it kept out about 150 yards in the field beside the one i was in, had the crosshairs bang in the middle of the eyes a few times but couldnt get a100% positive id, so had to leave it. when i walked down and checked the field i saw 4 or 5 young rabbits bouncing about, 5 mins after the fox was in it

[Billy.]

The thing is, one of my permissions is a sewage treatment plant. The rabbits cause havoc with all the underground machinery and the warrens can be a serious risk to ground strength, especially as there are millions of gallons of water passing through the area, which doesn't exactly weigh nothing.

 

The foxes have dug their den on a bank, which has no machinery near it; therefore that den is no risk to the stability/safety of the site.

 

There are a lot of people who will see those foxes and apparently they're reasonably tame and will sometimes sit behind you and watch you work so if they suddenly start disappearing and the workers know there's vermin control on the land, the blame could easily land with me.

 

What you have to remember is that I am only listening to what I've been told; I can't shoot the hares on one of my permissions and I can't shoot foxes on the another permission. I respect the fact that I have been given the rights to shoot a patch of land and entrusted with a firearm. I wouldn't want to risk losing a permission, especially as word can travel quite quickly around this neck of the woods, if something were to go wrong.

[al4x]

If thats the sewage works I think it is looks like you've a bit more work to do it was crawling with them last night. Though did see one of your cubs just couldn't quite swerve quick enough to help out

[Billy.]

If thats the sewage works I think it is looks like you've a bit more work to do it was crawling with them last night. Though did see one of your cubs just couldn't quite swerve quick enough to help out

 

I'm going to be back there on Saturday if you fancy giving me a hand shooting the bunnies

Edited April 15, 2010 by harfordwmj

[al4x]

I've just got the missus back from India so am somewhat confined to base this weekend but any other time you fancy a hand

[albob]

The thing is, one of my permissions is a sewage treatment plant. The rabbits cause havoc with all the underground machinery and the warrens can be a serious risk to ground strength, especially as there are millions of gallons of water passing through the area, which doesn't exactly weigh nothing.

 

The foxes have dug their den on a bank, which has no machinery near it; therefore that den is no risk to the stability/safety of the site.

 

There are a lot of people who will see those foxes and apparently they're reasonably tame and will sometimes sit behind you and watch you work so if they suddenly start disappearing and the workers know there's vermin control on the land, the blame could easily land with me.

 

What you have to remember is that I am only listening to what I've been told; I can't shoot the hares on one of my permissions and I can't shoot foxes on the another permission. I respect the fact that I have been given the rights to shoot a patch of land and entrusted with a firearm. I wouldn't want to risk losing a permission, especially as word can travel quite quickly around this neck of the woods, if something were to go wrong.

 

i understand your reasoning and fully agree with your position on it and for not shooting the foxes.

this is not about the shooting of them though(the foxes),just the reasoning behind the "foxes keep the population of rabbits down".

like i stated above,if they were doing such a good job,why are we required?(not knocking it though).

just something i find strange to be honest and al4x saying they had 5 young but,as i said they come under easy meal and as young are not about all year round,what then?

the rabbits that are left are bigger and wiser and can avoid the fox,as they get to know it is a danger to them,plus they are hunting more now to feed young cubs,so it varies on the hunting for themselves or for the cubs and vixens sake but,more out of necesity rather than to keep the numbers down.(can they count? :( ).

just a debate and not a dig in any way.

 

al

[Billy.]

i understand your reasoning and fully agree with your position on it and for not shooting the foxes.

this is not about the shooting of them though(the foxes),just the reasoning behind the "foxes keep the population of rabbits down".

like i stated above,if they were doing such a good job,why are we required?(not knocking it though).

just something i find strange to be honest and al4x saying they had 5 young but,as i said they come under easy meal and as young are not about all year round,what then?

the rabbits that are left are bigger and wiser and can avoid the fox,as they get to know it is a danger to them,plus they are hunting more now to feed young cubs,so it varies on the hunting for themselves or for the cubs and vixens sake but,more out of necesity rather than to keep the numbers down.(can they count? :( ).

just a debate and not a dig in any way.

 

al

 

You have to remember though; there would be one hell of a lot more foxes and rabbits if we didn't shoot them. Eventually there would be a balance that would keep the foxes alive and the rabbit numbers enough to feed the foxes, but to also reproduce and keep the population stable.

 

Clearly the foxes aren't going to make a dent in the rabbit population, but they do kill some. That means they're at least helping the area keep the numbers down, especially as I'm the only person who shoots there, they need some help from the predators!

 

I'm not taking it as a dig at me, so don't worry it's a good question to ask

[albob]

i`m not worrying,i think..

 

the fox and rabbits not being shot,i would say that the rabbits would breed to an extent(if mixy don`t get them),that they will out number the foxes by a hell of a lot.the fox would have to take a lot of rabbits to even it out but,so many eyes looking for danger will make it very hard for foxy.

 

i suppose the answer is in what you say.but they do kill some..but,not to be relied upon for vermin control.. :(

 

all the best .

al

[maddog546]

This is a common misconception of Rabbit relationship to Foxes,the fox is a lazy hunter hence the killing of contained livestock/poultry,after all the likes of Billy Ody and co need to educate people to the fact that a Fox has the same diet as a Badger,that being Mice,Snails,Slugs,Shrews and the like,hence the reason you see them foraging together in the same fields.

Come on surely you all seen Foxes mousing in fresh cut fields and hunting in straw barns for rats and mice.

 

The reality of it is that Foxes do very little to control Rabbits which as a Pestcontroller are the most expensive pest of all to control,anyone who thinks they can iradicate Rabbits from the planet is mistaken,they tried allsorts over the years and if there was a cheap option someone would of found it by now.

The best time to control rabbits is in the winter and reduce the breeding stock ,28 days gestation and the ability to fall pregnant the day she gives birth,no wonder they are hard to keep on top of,I have seen several of the little **** darting around lately,but I think everything is behind due to the cold weather we have had,or should that read proper winter.

[albob]

what?..bill odie was wrong?

 

 

nothing like getting out there to see how it actually is but,not eveyone has the option,so they like the tv to give them the information so they do not have to think about it.

badgers do take young rabbits,so can be on par with fox at times,regarding the taking of young.

i was out last night and seen a few young rabbits about and mr fox was hunting but,not for the young,as he veered past them(not me that made the fox do that).

many variables to the fox keeping the rabbits down and i suppose it will continue.

 

al